Why don’t they carbon-test dino fossils? + A powerful plug for a powerful Christmas gift
Published: 16 December 2006 (GMT+10)
The first feedback has a reasonable question about radiocarbon dating for the T. rex bones with blood cells and blood vessels. The answer also explains still more evidence for surviving dinosaur proteins that makes little sense under a long-age view.
The second is a review (totally unsolicited) of our new DVD critiquing the popular Da Vinci Code book and film. [Ed. note: in view of the huge demand, orders may not reach people in time for Christmas, but a $2 gift is worth considering any time of the year.]
Why don’t they carbon-test dino fossils?
I really enjoyed the article, Schweitzer’s dangerous discovery. I was wondering if she, or perhaps Jack Horner, have taken the time to have this discovery carbon dated?
John Blay BC
Dear Mr Blay
Thank you for your email of 8 December, submitted via our website.
The assumption by evolutionists that carbon-14 (14C) could not possibly be present in such ‘old’ fossils generally prevents carbon dating being attempted. This situation is discussed in point 1 near the end of our ‘Squishosaurus’ article. Evolutionists generally will not use carbon-testing on fossils that they ‘know’ (i.e. assume, incorrectly) to be many hundreds of thousands or millions of years old. That’s why creationists have to do the research instead, and find that coal and diamonds, that evolutionists claim to be millions of years old, still contain 14C which should have decayed if the samples really were that old (see Diamonds—a creationist’s best friend: Radiocarbon in diamonds: enemy of billions of years).
From Science via AP
As yet there has been no carbon-14 testing of those T. rex samples, however at least one evolutionist palaeontologist, Hans Larsson, has actually called for 14C testing to be done on them (‘14C dating should be done’)—not to establish the age of the T. rex, but to ‘prove’ whether or not the fossils have been contaminated by ‘modern biofilms’! In other words, if they find 14C, this will in their eyes prove that the structures they are observing are not the original T. rex tissues and that the soft tissue found by Schweitzer et al. is actually that of microbes that have replaced the original dinosaur tissue, as sceptics of her findings have proposed. Larsson has endorsed this idea as ‘totally logical’ (Soft Tissue in Dinosaur Fossils? The Evidence Hardens, Science 314(5801):920, 10 November 2006).
In the same article, Dr Mary Schweitzer reports on follow-up work showing that collagen is present in these fossils. ‘Atomic force microscopy of fibers showed 67-nanometer-wide bands like those of emu collagen (cf. ‘Ostrich-osaurus’ discovery?: Shedding more light on the new startling find of soft tissue in a T. rex bone). David Martill, University of Portsmouth, UK exclaimed, ‘Looks like collagen, behaves like collagen, and it’s 68 million years old! How cool is that?’ Of course, this again begs the question, and leaves unsolved how protein could have survived that long.
The article also reported, ‘Gel electrophoresis revealed signals consistent with osteocalcin, a protein thought to help in bone mineralization’ (see also Bone building: perfect protein for another example of finding this exquisitely designed protein in dinosaur bones). Here there are only trace amounts. All the same, microbes do not produce collagen or osteocalcin, so Larsson’s idea does not seem so logical after all.
Update, 2013: now they have indeed found 14C in dinosaur bones—see Radiocarbon in dino bones: International conference result censored —Editors.
- 01 Jun 1992 Fresh dinosaur bones found
- 01 Dec 1993 Dinosaur bone blood cells found
- 01 Sep 1997 Sensational dinosaur blood report!
- 01 Aug 1998 Exceptional soft-tissue preservation in a fossilised dinosaur
- 30 May 2000 ‘Sue’ the T. rex: another ‘missionary lizard’
- 25 Mar 2002 Evolutionist questions CMI report—Have red blood cells really been found in T. rex fossils?
- 01 Dec 2002 Feathered or furry dinosaurs? Soft tissue preservation
- 01 Apr 2004 Bone building: perfect protein (See paragraph six re osteocalcin in Iguanodon bones.)
- 25 Mar 2005 Still soft and stretchy: Dinosaur soft tissue find—a stunning rebuttal of ‘millions of years’
- 28 Mar 2005 “Ostrich-osaurus” discovery?
- 16 May 2005 Squirming at the Squishosaur
- 01 Sep 2005 Dino soft tissue find
- 01 Dec 2005 Answering objections to creationist ‘dinosaur soft tissue’ age arguments
- 01 Apr 2006 A fossil is a fossil is a fossil. Right?
- 19 Jul 2006 ‘Schweitzer’s Dangerous Discovery’
- 20 Apr 2007 Squishosaur scepticism squashed: Tests confirm proteins found in T. rex bones
- 07 Dec 2007 Hadrosaur hi-jinx: Will this find reveal more unfossilised soft tissues?
- 01 Jun 2008 The real ‘Jurassic Park’
- 02 Aug 2008 Doubting doubts about the Squishosaur
- 06 May 2009 Dinosaur soft tissue and protein—even more confirmation!
- 09 May 2009 Dino proteins and blood vessels: are they a big deal?
- 11 Nov 2009 Best ever find of soft tissue (muscle and blood) in a fossil
- 01 Dec 2009 More confirmation for dinosaur soft tissue and protein
- 11 Dec 2012 DNA and bone cells found in dinosaur bone
- 22 Jan 2013 Radiocarbon in dino bones: International conference result censored
A Powerful Plug for a Powerful Christmas Gift
Hi CMI: God bless you in Jesus’ Name.
I am just submitting this testimonial/review concerning your recent double message DVD, The Gift of the Da Vinci Code + Has Evolution become a religion?
I saw this DVD as a possible Christmas gift addition for my family and friends. But as some of these are seriously burnt out by my youthful over-enthusiasm, I needed to be clear on the quality of the resource before purchasing. I therefore purchased 2 copies initially to review it, but I have now purchased another 10 and will be seeking agreement with my wife before I order another 20.
I hope to assist some of your customers in skipping this review step which may make a big difference (Christmas is nearly here) in making sure as many people as God wills view this DVD this Christmas. Christmas is a time when family gets together and may be the only time that some friends and relatives have a chance to really talk to each other.
I just want to say that if you are considering purchasing a few copies of The Gift of the Da Vinci Code + Has Evolution become a religion?, please do not have any doubts or inhibitions about ordering as many as you think you can use.
I was very cautious because I didn’t want to be caught with large numbers of an unusable resource. You will probably be a bit short of time now to order in time for Christmas. My message is just go ahead and order one for every Christmas card. This DVD double is excellent.
How excellent is it? The content of both presentations is:
- world class video;
- entertaining to Christians, seekers and skeptics alike;
- thought-provoking to Christians, seekers and skeptics;
- goes beyond the minimum content that the title of each presentation makes you expect, to show how the Gospel message is fundamental to the issues in both cases, but without violating your viewers by going beyond the agreement to watch only the content as described by the title.
- it also provides links to several key articles about the Da Vinci Code.
I had a fair degree of confidence in the DVD since I have some experience with the quality of CMI resources. However, I wasn’t expecting too much since I feel the strong point of CMI’s resources is their ability with the technical details. I was pleased above expectation with both presentations on the DVD and can affirm that the speakers and creative teams produce well put together presentations.
If you are thinking that your audience is too skeptical, or too antagonistic or too disinterested then this is the DVD that will give them some light this Christmas. If you are thinking it is too basic for Christians, then they will find increased understanding of why these issues are so fundamental. If you are thinking your audience is too fed up with evangelizing, then this will meet them where they are at. If you are thinking your skeptics are too uninterested, then these presentations will get them hooked. If you are thinking ‘how can one DVD be targeted at all 3 segments’ then you need to remember that all things are possible with God. If you are a non-Christian reading this then if you just want some fun and engaging information that will touch your deepest needs (and prejudices) then just order this DVD now.
If you have used a Da Vinci code DVD before then you will find that this one is so much fresher that even audiences who have ‘been there done that’ with Breaking the Da Vinci Code will get new information and new perspective. The Da Vinci code segment is produced by New Hope, Brisbane, and although they make it clear that Dan Brown has not been at all factual, they don’t deteriorate their presentation by focusing on Dan Brown’s negatives. They move on quickly and seamlessly to delivering archaeological and historical facts that you may not have previously been aware of, including a surprising (and factual) appearance by the real ‘Santa Claus’ / ‘Father Christmas’!
I really want to take advantage of the $2 evangelism price tag and get as many as I can use. I don’t want more than I can use but if someone is willing to promise to at least put it in the player and start watching it then they should have one. They will surely end up watching both presentations through to the end and then find themselves talking about it later.
Thanks and God bless