Homeschool conference: great encouragement and some concerns
Greenville Homeschooling Conference
Published: 13 June 2019 (GMT+10)

Each year, CMI–US is privileged to provide the main creation teaching element at the Great Homeschool Conferences in the US in Greenville, SC. Our CEO, Gary Bates, gave five talks on creation on topics ranging from dinosaurs, to myth-busting evolution, to racism, as well as what we should think about UFOs and who created God.
The talks were well-attended and there were extremely good interactions with the audience, with applause and even a standing ovation from some during Gary’s final talk. One woman told us that she found Gary’s talks to be the most interesting of all the topics offered at the GHC. Another woman came up to us at the end of the talk on racism, almost with tears in her eyes, obviously much affected by the powerful message, which sheds light onto why we as a nation are so divided even in the church.
What was the most encouraging, however, was the number of teenagers who specifically came out of their way to express thanks for showing evidence that God created the Earth, and that we can really trust the Bible. We are so glad to know that we are making a difference in helping, with God’s providence, in reversing the trend in losing our young ones to a hopeless evolutionary ideology.
Reason for concern

Before one of the talks, we had a discussion with Tim Barnett from Stand to Reason, who was giving multiple presentations at the conference. He was also teaching as part of the youth track component of the conference. While he claims to reject evolution, we had discussions with his views on the age of the Earth and the nature of death. He said that his ministry officially does not take a stand on the age of the earth, and leaves the question open as to whether the Earth is young or old.
However, after discussion with him, it turned out that he does believe in an old Earth, implying that death, disease, suffering and pain all came before Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Gary tried to explain the hermeneutics of the word ‘day’ in Genesis 1 and that the whole concept of an ancient earth was due to a secular interpretation of the geologic layers. And that, problematically, those layers contain fossils which is a record of death, and that by putting death before Adam and Eve in the Garden it created a problem for the Gospel and the notion that all creation was “Very Good” as prescribed by God on day 6. Tim cited Psalm 104:21 which says: “The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God” claiming it is God that provided the kill, and thus, that animal death must be good in God’s economy. Gary tried to remind him that we are living in a post-Fall world and thus sin and death is upon all of creation and that God also told Noah he may now eat meat after the Flood (Genesis (9:3). (See our reasoning here).
An old earth is ‘very good’?
Gary then asked him why he thought the earth was old, but Barnett instead cited the distant starlight issue as his reason for accepting the long ages of the universe. We tried to explain that this subject has been answered extensively on our site, to which he claimed he has read some of the answers. However, he then also claimed that because fellow creation cosmologists have critiqued each other’s models that this somehow invalidated them, and that CMI should not promote them as truth. Gary expressed concern at this straw man argument because CMI’s policy has always been to ‘hold to models loosely, but to hold to the Bible tightly’. That is, regardless of whatever model is mentioned, they have never been presented as ‘the answer’ and are always subservient to Scripture. The reality is that all cosmologists have to study and observe are wavelengths of light. It is not the same type of science as testing gravity, for example. Moreover, competing models and critiquing are a good thing and are part of the normal scientific rigor. Mr Barnett conceded this point, but nonetheless it did raise an alarm for us as he was teaching ‘science’ at this homeschool conference and such arguments were disconcerting.
We wanted to know more, so that’s why I attended his presentation titled “If God, Why Evil?” The main focus of this talk was to discuss the issue of why a loving and omnipotent God would allow suffering in the world. The talk featured a short video showing the atheist Stephen Fry accusing God being a horrible monster for allowing people to suffer. He cited the example of a species of worm which bores itself into the eyes of its victims, causing terrible suffering.
Barnett claims that human suffering is different from animal death and suffering and presumably animals tearing each other apart is not ‘suffering’. In other words, even though Adam sinned, only humans were affected by his sin, trotting out the tired Hugh Ross argument that Romans 5:12 only applies to human death. But if this were the case then why will God have to create a new Heavens and a new Earth in their entirety? Why not redeem humans as a species only and avoid destroying the Earth? As we’ve pointed out elsewhere, as long as there is a fossil in the ground it is a reminder of the death that sin brought to this Earth, and all traces must be removed or Satan wins. Romans 8:20–23 says: “For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies” (emphasis ours). This verse highlights the total effect of sin. We are dead in sin. Sin affects everything that we even associate with.
The Bible describes animal suffering in a different light than does Barnett. In Genesis 3:14 God curses the snake “above all livestock and above all beasts of the field”. Verse 15 describes how the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpent’s head, implying a violent death to the snake. In verses 17–18, God curses the ground and will make thorns and thistles to grow out of the ground. These plant appendages serve as defence mechanisms, inflicting pain not only on humans who may grasp them, but also herbivorous animals which may want to consume these types of plants.
Animals were originally vegetarian—the Bible says so!
Furthermore, during Creation week, God gave plants as food not only to humans but to animals as well: “And God said, ‘Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.’ And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.” (Genesis 1:29–31)
What this means is that God did not originally allow animals to eat each other or humans to eat the animals. Barnett claimed that just because the idea that animals ate other animals isn’t explicitly written down in Scripture, it does not mean it is not true. However, this is an argument from silence. It was simply the order of creation and a command of God that animals were given plants to eat. Barnett is imposing his modern-day conception that animals could only have been carnivores before the Fall presumably because he believes the fossil record is evidence of death and carnivory over millions of years. However, the past is the key to interpreting the present. Carnivory, thorns and thistles, and parasitic bacteria are all products of the Fall.
But let us take Barnett’s logic to its ultimate conclusion. If we shouldn’t exclude pre-Fall carnivory because it is not mentioned, then so should we also not exclude marriage between two men in the Bible, just because that too is not mentioned. Thus, the problem lies in Barnett’s initial presupposition, that pre-Fall carnivory could have existed despite its mentioning being absent from the pages of Scripture.
Barnett replied by stating specifically that the Hebrew names of animals named in the Old Testament, such as the owl or the lion imply the aggressiveness and viciousness of these animals. However, this argument does not say much. We can’t be certain that Hebrew was the original language of Adam; it could have arisen after the Fall into sin and would therefore naturally have reflected the transformed nature of animals from docile beings to bloodthirsty killers.
Whereas Barnett could be given credit for disavowing evolution, he still gets it wrong on the age of the Earth and the nature of suffering and death. In effect, since he allows for long ages, this would allow for the remains of animals to appear as fossils in the rock layers before the creation of Adam and Eve. And Barnett even argues for the possibility of animal death before humans, despite God saying that what He had created was very good (Genesis 1:31). What would make his position any different from full-blown evolution? Not only are animal remains found in the geological layers but human fossils as well. Why does Barnett make a difference between animals and humans?
In sum, it is troubling to see that there are some Christian teachers out there who compromise the faith of our young kids, by presenting a distorted view of the Gospel. And as we clearly showed in our documentary Fallout, belief in millions of years opens the door to all sorts of evolutionary ideas, and as can be seen here, compromise and poor exegeses of the biblical text. We earnestly pray and hope that Mr Barnett comes to trust completely in the authority of the Scriptures and not manmade, secular interpretations of the natural world. We are ready and willing to assist.
Readers’ comments
That's especially true for those that fight learning the truth & won't listen to the Holy Spirit that teaches all truth. Which this is part of. Gods Holy Spirit won't let us stay in untruth & spread it & especially to harm others.
That is an example of Lukewarm of which Jesus spews out of His mouth &/or rejects because He never really knew them because they refused to listen to the call of truth from the Holy Spirit.
We have to stop eating and attacking our own on non essentials. When I organized a conference, I had YEC Richard Howe sharing the stage with Tim Barnett, and I'd do it again. Given my own interactions with Tim, I'm not confident you are even representing him well. The age of the earth is not the main issue, leading our young people away from church. Tim's ability to deliver talks like Tactics, addressing the problem of evil, and his amazing use of technology are really great tools, and it's unwise to focus on the minor disagreement over that. I'm well aware, you will come back and tell me how important it is, and I'll keep listening to the arguments, but I have yet to see any evidence that it logically follows that animal death before the fall hinders the bible's inerrency in anyway, or that it could somehow cast doubt on the life , death, resurrection or teachings of Jesus.
Then you claim we are not representing him well. Do you realize this is a serious accusation? I trust you are not accusing us of being dishonest and that your wording is just an unfortunate turn of phrase. Two of us were present during the discussions and one attended his talk (where you there?). He was teaching youth on the issue of 'Why evil?' In our conversations he made it abundantly clear that he believed in animal death before the Fall. In fact,he challenged me if I thought animal death was a bad thing citing Job 38:39 himself believing that lions seeking their prey was a 'good' thing. Really? I've been on safaris in Africa and have seen how intelligent lions have learnt to pack hunt small elephants and separate them from their herd. Because the necks are so large the lions cannot put a choke bite on the young elephants. So, these young elephants are overwhelmed by the numbers of lions and are eaten alive. I've seen them scream in pain and also heard the cries of the accompanying mothers and aunts in the herd as they see their family members taken from them. And yet Tim might claim this is part of God's goodness. Because Tim puts millions of years of animal death before the Fall, he must allegorize the completeness of the Fall as per the teachings of Hugh Ross (as cited in the article).
I've been in ministry for 25+ plus years, and I've learnt that most Christians, when they try to add millions of years to the Bible often do so without even understanding where the MOYs comes from. Simply, it comes from the belief that the rock layers were laid down over MOYs. But those rock layers have fossils in them. This includes human fossils BTW not just animals, something you are obviously completely unaware of. because you say you also have no problem with animal death before the Fall. Yet on day 6 of Creation God pronounced everything 'very good' (Hebrew: tov meod or completion/perfection. Moreover, it is quite simple and a lot easier to explain these fossils as a result of Noah's Flood. If this is the case, and the Flood lasted only one year and thus there is no MOYs. If there is no MOYs then there is no time for evolution; no time for slow mutation rates from apes to humans and so on. In addition, all those fossils came after the Fall in Genesis 3. Additionally, yours/Tim's view of these pre-Fall fossils being very good is just one view or explanation of trying to put MOYs in the Scriptures before Adam and Eve. Is yours/Ross's view correct? What about all the others? They cannot all be correct. But noticeably they all take liberties and distort the plain understanding of God's Word. Again, you say 'What does yom mean. I'm glad you asked (because again it displayed you have not really read up on this. In the OT the word day/yom appears 523 times with the various combinations of evening or morning, and or a number. In every single case where a combination of this day/number combination appears outside of Genesis 1, no one ever questions it as anything but a 24 hour day. The only place it is ever questioned is Genesis 1. Why? Because of an unwitting deference to a secular interpretation of the age of the earth (based upon those rock layers). Here are some articles for you to read from a Hebrew/semantic point of view of what the author of Genesis was clearly trying to convey when using the word yom..
Genesis 1: YÔM ≠ eon.
The meaning of yôm in Genesis 1:1–2:4
The-days-of-creation-a-semantic-approach.
Here is also a chapter from our Creation Answers Book.
Please also read Did God create over billions of years?
And here is one more thing to think about. If animal death in the fossil record is good according to you, what will the restoration look like? Will it be a partial restoration? Will God just tidy up the earth a bit here and there? The restoration of the 'heavens and earth' will be a complete destruction and restoration of the entire universe. But why if the earth is 'good'? As long as there is a fossil in the ground, it is a reminder of death and what went wrong and satan's involvement in causing the world to fall. Leaving fossils in the ground would mean that his plan was in part successful. Nothing less than a complete restoration would suffice. If God used death and suffering to create the animal kingdom of MOYs are you looking forward to that again as a reflection of the 'good' nature of God in the new heavens and earth. See The new Earth.
I have granted you the courtesy of giving a detailed reply with some important articles for you to read. I hope you genuinely choose to be more informed about this issues, and why a ministry like ours takes the issue of Bible teachers giving the impression of millions of years of animal suffering in the fossil record as being consistent with the nature of God, as a serious corruption of God's Word.
I am not an Old Earth Creationist. As a matter of fact, I've been in just about every camp, from YEC to Gap Theory to Old Earth Creation to dabbling in ID and now, Evolutionary Creation, but I would never slander a fellow brother merely because he disagrees with me on a peripheral issue. Shame on you.
May God continue to bless His work in Tim Barnett. And thank God for BioLogos.
BTW we don't have a narrow interpretation of Scripture. We interpret it demonstrably and similarly to how the actual biblical authors did. See:
Genesis: Bible authors believed it to be history.
Jesus Christ on the infallibility of Scripture.
How every NT author interpreted Genesis
Moreover, you broadly used the word science. Can you define what you are actually talking about? See: ‘It’s not science’.
And shame on you for misrepresenting creationists. I know of no creationist who says you cannot be saved if you don't believe Genesis as written. In fact, we have articles dealing with this. see: Do I have to believe in a literal creation to be a Christian?.Also, it appears you have not really bothered to digest the reasoning that adding millions of years or death before the Fall is a Gospel issues. See: Did God create over billions of years?..
And lastly, we did not attack him as a person but his beliefs, and the low view of Scripture that he has which is subservient to a secular interpretation of the natural world (like you apparently). You used the word 'slander' which is a grievous accusation to make, thus you are committing the very same thing you accuse us of. If there are any untruths in what we wrote we will gladly retract them (but you might want to check out the comments below from others that confirm what STR and Barnett believe on this issue). We'd also be happy to receive your apology for this in due course.
I've taken considerable time to supply just a few links to the many thousands on our site that comprehensively deal with this issue. In the time you took to write your comment you could have actually searched this site to be more informed.
And another: "Here is the key to understanding the problem of evil: When God's children disobeyed their heavenly Father, they damaged everything. When Adam and Eve rebelled against the King of the universe, they broke the whole world. This is why there is evil and suffering. Bad things happen in a world that is broken." (p. 94)
The folks at STR clearly get it. They know the big picture story of the Bible, they know the connection between the gospel and Genesis. They vigorously defend the historicity of Adam and the Fall. It's just that when it comes to the particulars, they stumble. Their excellent understanding of the big picture doesn't fit with all the details of their views. It seems pretty obvious to me that the fossil record has to be post-Fall, but somehow they haven't made that connection (just compare what's in the fossil record to the first quote above!). It saddens me that they're so confused on the age of the earth issue. I pray that God would continue to transform them by the renewing of their minds, and that He would advance His kingdom through their ministry, and bring glory to His name.
"The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved." 1 Chronicles 16:30b (also see Psalm 93:1)
"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." Psalm 104:5
Additionally, Psalm 19:4-6 and Eccles 1:5 seem to teach that the sun moves, rather than Earth.
So Lennox uses this historical example to point out that we have all accepted the heliocentric view and believe that the earth does move. Astronomy helped Christians interpret the Bible correctly. Instead of understanding something 'literalistically,' we can still understand something 'literally,' which includes figures of speech and phenomenological language. Lennox writes, "We can now see that, although the Bible texts could be understood to support a fixed earth, there is a reasonable alternative interpretation of those texts that makes far more sense in light of our greater understanding of how the solar system operates."
Relatedly, if astronomy/cosmology says the universe is old, yet God created the heavens and the earth in vv 1-2, then we could reasonably interpret a gap between v2 and v3 without relying on faulty, secular geological assumptions about the earth's layers.
The more we learn from science about the universe, the easier it is to correctly interpret Scripture, while maintaining its authority over science.
I'd like to say more but I'm out of characters. Thoughts?
I would disagree with what you have to say. I would please ask you to read the material on our website about the soft gap theory, because we have already thoroughly dealt with the ideas you are advocating. The gap theory is actually an outdated idea that has been refuted long ago.
Think about it: you are supposing a long period of time before the days of creation. But this contradicts the order of events during these days. According to Genesis 1:14-19, the stars were created on day Four of Creation Week. Also, the Hebrew text of Genesis 1 involves what is known as a “waw” consecutive, which designates a series of actions happening one right after the other. This excludes all possibilities of slipping something in between verses 2 and 3.
As to your Bible verses: we ourselves describe things such as sunrise and sundown, but nobody would suggest that we believe that the sun revolves around the earth. The same goes for Psalm 19:4-6 and Ecclesiastes 1:5. Why then accuse the Bible of saying that the Earth is motionless?
May I also suggest to you that according to the principle of Sola Scriptura (the Bible alone is our highest authority) we do not need astronomy (or any kind of scientific theory for that matter) to help us interpret the Bible. Scripture interprets Scripture, and the authors of Psalms, Chronicles, and Ecclesiastes didn't have to wait for thousands of years so that Copernicus or Galileo could interpret their Bible correctly for them. That way Scripture doesn't maintain its authority over science - far from it, these scientific theories bind the believer into what he can or cannot accept from the Bible.
I would also like to ask you, what makes you think that the earth is millions of years old? A lot of articles on our website describe scientific evidence which refutes the old age of the Earth. This article describes why the amount of time it took God to create is so relevant. If someone believes that the Earth is millions of years old, then they also believe that that the fossils in the geological column are also millions of years old. Fossils are the remains of dead things, so this would put death, disease and suffering before Adam and Eve came on the scene. On the other hand, the fossil evidence is actually the easiest thing for creationists to explain. Fossils don’t form under normal circumstances but can easily form during a Flood. That’s why we see lots of evidence for rapid burial. For example, fossil cemeteries the size of several states are all due to the Flood.
Thanks for your reply, but this will have to be my final response in this exchange.
Are they, (old earth progressive creationists) looking for some kind of respectability among evolutionists? Richard Dawkins despises progressive creationists more than we Young Earth Creationists because they don't stand their ground and he believes their argument is more ludicrous than ours! Of course Richard Dawkins is denying the obvious also. According to the last 50 or so years of scientific discovery, it is obvious that Scripture is God's truth according to the observations.
In war, you have to stand on one side or the other and make no mistake, we are at spiritual war with the carnal man Mat 10:34. To compromise, is to just be in the way!
Mr. Barnett's position is just a compromising position on evolution nothing more and an evolutionary view nonetheless.
"It is Good: Bethany Sollereder on Animal Suffering
This is a short excerpt from Bethany Sollereder's plenary talk at the BioLogos Conference in March 2019 on animal suffering and the goodness of God's plan for nature."
An illustrative quote:
"There is no sense (reading from Job 39) that the eagle's bloodthirsty nature is contrary to God's will".
Left hanging is the question of how certain bloodthirsty human acts are also not contrary to God's nature?
That is exactly correct. Genesis 2:18 says that plants will bear thorns and thistles. Adam's sin did not extend merely to humankind. It affected the entire creation. The natural world, including plants and animals was affected. This includes the eagle's bloodthirsty nature, parasitic bacteria and viruses which infect humans.
God created the heavens and the earth in vv 1-2 but there's an unstated gap in time between v2 and v3, such that the age of the earth can be old before God created light on Day 1. Thus the expanse of space makes sense as indicating long periods of time, and we can have an old earth before God created animals and Adam.
This interpretation does not rely on secular beliefs about the geological layers (especially because I believe the layers with fossils exist due to the flood). Instead it relies on a plausible interpretation of Scripture, since the text doesn't tell us how long the earth existed before God created light. And then the findings of cosmology corroborate the authority of Scripture on this matter?
What you are referring to is the so-called soft gap theory. We have dealt with this extensively on our website.
But in response to the points that you raised, the big question is, what is your rationale for reading in millions of years of time in between verses 2 and 3? If the Bible doesn't explicitly mention millions of years, then this is merely an argument from silence. Based on the Scripture being our sole highest authority, we don't need to corroborate Scripture with any kind of cosmology.
Each day of creation has a morning and an evening, this way we can be sure that none of the days were long periods of time. This is reinforced by Exodus 20:11, which says that as humans, we pattern our work week on God's work pattern during the days of creation.
If there really were millions of years between verses 2 and 3, then the Bible wouldn't say that "in the beginning" God created the heavens and the earth. Mark 10:6 says that "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female". So this excludes any long period of time between Genesis 1:2 and 3.
Think of it this way: God loves His creatures in an intimate way. Why would God wait such a long time before creating humans in His image? Can you imagine being separated from your loved ones for millions of years? It doesn't make sense emotionally.
Some more resources that you can read on the gap theory are here.
When I was a younger Christian, I struggled so much because I tried to squeeze human opinions into the Bible but, God clearly showed me my error and, If the Scriptures are truly God's word and Authoritative in all areas then how could I call God a liar and call myself a believer?
The truth is, the Scriptures are in inerrant and infallible Word of God and we have no right to reject any part of it just because it does not fit with our opinions or because we do not like it. I will only add that Scripture says, "Let God be true and every man a liar
I viewed Dr Jordan Peterson's video last night - talking about the question that he keeps getting asked, namely "Do you believe in God". It is quite clear from the discussion that he is a firm adherent to the evolutionary paradigm and one can also deduce that though he strongly subscribes to and reveres the biblical teachings, that he is not a confirmed Christian. I used that the comments section of that video (on YouTube) as an avenue to explain the gospel as simply as I could (with strong negation of the evolutionary story) and hope that others looking for the truth will find it useful.
Thanks to your work here on Creation.com I am now able to make coherent and focused statements regarding evolution / long ages versus the bible.
Thanks for your kind comments. It is important to point out the issue of millions of years, and how that contradicts the Bible. We also disapprove of much of Jordan Peterson's ideology. Click here for a refutation of his views.
Comments are automatically closed 14 days after publication.