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Humanism: neither healthy, nor humane

Britain’s National Health Service appoints first humanist head chaplain

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Published: 18 September 2018 (GMT+10)
human-hands

The UK Humanist Society have secured a ‘victory’ in appointing their very first humanist to head the Chaplaincy and Pastoral Support team in the National Health Service (NHS) and they want more humanist chaplains to follow. Lindsay van Dijk,1 originally from Holland, is the new head of Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust chaplaincy team. She is leading a team of ministers from the Church of England, Baptist and evangelical denominations, along with twenty-four volunteers from a range of other faiths.

But since when did humanism become a privileged religion that justifies its place at the head of Christianity and other faiths? Previously, we have witnessed the duplicity of the atheist claim to non–religion when it suits them.

What is a good life?

A recent BBC report gives van Dijk free rein to express her viewpoint on various issues. She states that humanists, “do not believe in a higher power, or a ‘god’, but … do believe in leading a good life right now”.2 She does not state how or from where she derives her definition of ‘good’. What exactly is a ‘good life’, and by what standard does she measure it? Her own personal ethical view? Where does that come from? If, as humanists assert, there is no Supreme Being, there is no ultimate standard by which ‘truth’ and ‘goodness’ can be measured. The logical conclusion of humanism (which she fails to admit in her BBC monologue) is that people like her have set themselves up as the ultimate arbiters of truth and goodness. Without the God of the Bible as the ultimate source of Christian ethics, moral relativism is the only possible outcome.

Moral relativism and pastoral care?

In a recent radio interview about her NHS chaplaincy appointment, van Dijk states, “… humanists accept that the current life that we live is our only life, so we don’t so much bother about an afterlife, or thinking that there’s something after we pass away and therefore we have to make meaning and purpose for ourselves in the one life that we have”.3 This is nihilism plain and simple— which is condemned in Scripture (see Ecclesiastes 8:15; Isaiah 22:13, Luke 12:18–20 and 1 Corinthians 15:32, where Paul adds that such thinking results from not believing in the resurrection).

Van Dijk discusses her chosen career path and how she “got heavily involved” with Humanists UK (HUK). She was, “very intrigued about how brilliantly they set up the humanist pastoral care service there and really wanted to put [her] two cents in as well”.3 The interviewer asked how a humanist works alongside “Church of England, Baptist, [and] evangelical denominations”, when their “two worlds collide” and when they “don’t have a shared belief. … How has it gone down with them?”3 She said she had detected “no collisions of world-views”, citing the fact that most of their pastoral care was practically orientated. Also, patients could be referred to chaplains of other faiths if they asked.

The interviewer pressed van Dijk further by asking, “So is that what you do? You don’t get on to the tricky subject of, ‘Is there, or isn’t there a God?’ until you know where that person is coming from, and then you can direct them to the person they need to speak to?” Van Dijk’s reply reveals her completely materialistic, reductionist view of spirituality: “It’s mostly … about [asking] ‘what does this mean to you?’ If somebody really wants to speak about an afterlife, of course they can speak to me about that … as well, but if it comes to specifically the rituals, such as praying, I don’t feel authentic in providing prayer—as that’s not part of my belief. We can sit alongside the bed, if somebody prays and, of course … offer that moment of silence, and then ask for someone [else] who can actually provide a specific ritual …”3

Earlier in the interview, van Dijk defined ‘spirituality’ (for a humanist who does not “believe in any God”) as being “broad” but, “not reserved to just people of faith… It’s something that takes us outside of our everyday existence and it’s an experience which you can become wholly absorbed in, such as, for instance, meditation, or a deeply affecting piece of music, or a moment where you have a very beautiful human connection… Spirituality is what facilitates human flourishing.”3

It is clear that van Dijk has to borrow heavily from the biblical world-view in order to plug the gaps in her own completely vacuous world-view. The logical implication of evolution clearly is nihilism. This was ably summed up by Professor Richard Dawkins in his now-infamous quote, “The universe we observe has … no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”4 If van Dijk wants to be consistent with her world-view, she should be quoting Dawkins to those on their deathbeds—but that may not prove too popular with the patients or her NHS colleagues!

Humanists UK: where is their humanity?

Humanists-UK
A charitable organisation which promotes Humanism and aims to represent "people who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs" in the United Kingdom

But what of van Dijk‘s links with HUK—what do they stand for? Well, they promote a yearly Darwin Day every 12th February, and hope this will become a national holiday in honour of their hero.5 Under their website’s Schools and Education section they gloat that their ‘Teach evolution, not creationism’ campaign “has also had a string of victories, including evolution being added to the new primary National Curriculum in England, the fact that Free Schools now have to teach evolution, and the fact that state schools are banned from teaching pseudoscience such as creationism”; they see this as a cause for great celebration.6 In their targeting of schools they stand against ‘anti-abortion’ groups having access to pupils, seek further liberalisation of sex education in schools to increasingly younger pupils, and a call for a complete end to faith schools of all types.7

HUK campaigns also include an alarming push for assisted suicide. They state, “We have long supported attempts to legalise assisted dying, assisted suicide and voluntary euthanasia across the UK”.8 In their campaign to further liberalise the abortion laws they say, “We oppose any changes to the law that seek to restrict access to abortion, such as imposing compulsory ‘counselling’, or introduce further obstacles to later abortion, or outlaw abortion on the basis of doctrine, rather than on evidence.”9

Regarding the use of ‘human tissue’ for scientific research, their campaign states, “Humanists UK lobbied on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act, to bust the myths about the Act spread by some religious groups and set out our position on a range of issues including: the sex selection of embryos; [and] the use of inter-species embryos for scientific research…” (my emphasis).10 Yes, that really does mean mixing human and animal life; the HUK campaign pledges make for some truly shocking reading!

HUK campaigns for ‘human rights and equality’ includes, “an end to religious privilege in marriage laws, through the legalisation of humanist and same-sex marriage across the UK”.11

HUK was at the forefront in seeking to abolish the blasphemy laws in the UK and spearhead the laws’ further liberalisation: “Although the blasphemy laws have gone, many religious groups are stepping up their campaigns to have books or artworks they disagree with banned or censored—Humanists UK will be working to oppose such attempts whenever we hear of them, and to uphold freedom of speech”.12 UKH’s astounding statement is utterly hypocritical when we consider that Christian and other groups want the right to disagree with abortion and euthanasia, and to affirm traditional marriage. HUK seeks to ban them from having this right and opposes everything they stand for. And yet HUK want the freedom to blaspheme and offend people of faith. In fact, they worked hard to overturn British Law that had put curbs on people’s verbal behaviour. For the HUK it’s a case of ‘heads we win, tails you lose’.

HUK was also behind the £150,000 atheist bus campaign which ran the slogan, “There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life”, on London buses. They state on their campaign page: “People who do not believe in gods or other supernatural things, do not usually believe in life after death. Humanists believe that death is the end of our personal existence, that we have only one life and must make the most of it—as Robert Ingersoll, a nineteenth century American humanist said, ‘The time to be happy is now!’”13

Holland and the horrors of inhuman humanism

Through Van Dijk’s recent appointment by the NHS, her native country has effectively exported its brand of highly toxic, liberal humanism. While there are many active Christians in the country, the Netherlands is helping to lead Europe in a relativistic, moralistic charge away from the ultimate standards of God and His Word, particularly in the liberalisation of the euthanasia laws in Holland in 2002. Dutch medics involved in ‘assisted suicide’ are responsible for a staggering 4.5% of hospital deaths (as officially measured in 2015), a truly horrific statistic which is set to rise even further.14

Jaap Arriens/NurPhoto/Getty ImagesLilianne-Ploumen
Lilianne Ploumen on 2nd April 2015 in The Hague

Consider, too, the Dutch government’s lead in financially countering the impact of US President Trump's (2017) plan to stop foreign aid to organisations supporting abortion. Dutch Trade and Development Minister Lilianne Ploumen stated, “Access to sexual and reproductive health, particularly family planning, remains critical to women’s empowerment, improving gender equality and reducing maternal and child mortality.”15 By ‘family planning’, Ploumen means abortion, which is the murder of children in the womb for the sake of convenience. Yet, in her twisted world-view abortion can “reduce… child mortality”; perverse logic indeed.

When a nation casts off the restraint of God’s Law, they feel free to define what ‘good’ means for them (Judges 21:25). The answer to abortion is in Genesis, specifically Genesis 1:27, which clearly teaches that humans are made in the image of God, and are therefore of infinite worth. But if humans are merely evolved animals, as per the humanist position, what is wrong with killing unborn children?

With these things in mind, employing a humanist to head up an NHS Trust pastoral team does not bode well. I am not suggesting that van Dijk necessarily agrees with all the vileness of Dutch humanism, or would seek to promote those things in her role. But what I am saying is that the world-view she is sharing with others is capable of manifesting these types of horrors, and more. Humanists UK has hailed van Dijk’s appointment as a “positive reflection of the growing inclusivity of NHS trusts in their approach to providing religious, spiritual, and pastoral care”.16

But when it comes to ‘inclusivity’ for religious, spiritual, and pastoral care of patients, the British National Health service has a poor track record indeed and must be judged according to the back-drop of recent historical legal cases against Christians. Some may remember the 2009 case of the NHS nurse (Shirley Chaplin) sacked for refusing to remove a small cross which she hung discretely from her neck.17 Or the 2008 case of Caroline Petrie, who was suspended for offering to pray for one of her patients.18 Or what of the 2018 case of Sarah Kuteh, a Christian nurse, who was fired for talking to patients about her faith and occasionally offering prayer, while helping them prepare for surgery—even though it was in her job remit to ask about patients’ faith, as part of a pre-assessment questionnaire.19

Call to prayer

The rise of atheism and secular humanism in public life—in the UK and elsewhere—is a constant source of sorrow for Bible-believing Christians. This latest appointment should give further cause for concern. There is nothing truly humane about humanism. The societal fruits of secular humanism are evident to all with eyes to see. Evolutionary roots are bearing their fruits in society at large and humanism’s destructive influence is only set to spread further and deeper. Christians need to pray for those working in public life—including the good Christian nurses, medical doctors and chaplains—who are still being a quiet influence for good, even when under much secular pressure to conform.

It is also important to pray for Christian leaders, that they might boldly stand against the tide of immorality that is sweeping away the last vestiges of Christianity in the West. Only by a radical return to the authority of God’s Word—particularly with Genesis as the basis for all ethics—can the Church stem the ever-increasing flow of godlessness in society. That is why creation.com exists, part of CMI’s vital ministry to inform, support and equip the Church for the fight. Christians, keep praying!

References and notes

  1. Van Dijk holds Batchelor’s and Master’s degrees and is studying towards a doctoral degree within ‘humanist pastoral care’. Return to text.
  2. The first humanist lead chaplain in the NHS, bbc.co.uk/news, 19 August 2018; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  3. Lindsay van Dijk becomes first humanist NHS head of pastoral care, youtu.be/xj2YhLX614k, 11 May 2018; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  4. Dawkins, R., River out of Eden, Weidenfeld and Nicolswi, Chapter 4, 1995. Return to text.
  5. Anon, Darwin Day, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  6. Anon, Schools and education, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  7. Anon, PSHE and sex and relationships education, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  8. Anon, Assisted dying, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  9. Anon, Abortion and sexual-and-reproductive-rights, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  10. Anon, Human tissues and remains, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  11. Anon, Marriage laws, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  12. Anon, Abolition of English and Welsh blasphemy laws, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  13. Anon, Atheist bus campaign, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  14. Anon, Euthanasia deaths becoming common in Netherlands, cbsnews.com; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  15. Winsor, B., The Netherlands ‘counters’ Trump with international abortion fund, sbs.com.au; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  16. Anon, First humanist head of an NHS Chaplaincy and Pastoral Support team, humanism.org.uk; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  17. The same NHS Trust (Exeter), while sacking her, simultaneously allowed other faiths free expression. This included the wearing of head scarves on the wards by Muslim nurses, despite the obvious breach of uniform policy which was cited against Mrs. Chaplin. See: Anon, Christian nurse in confirmation cross suspension to file claim for discrimination, christianconcern.com; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  18. The patient in question was not offended, nor had she made any complaint against Mrs. Petrie. Rather, it was reported by a fellow nurse, resulting in Mrs. Petrie’s suspension without pay by her employer, the North Somerset Primary Care Trust. See: Anon, Praying patients should not be grounds for NHS disciplinary action, doctors say, christianconcern.com; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.
  19. Mrs. Kuteh was at the Darent Valley Hospital, Kent NHS Trust. See: Anon, Christian nurse sacked for talking about faith with patients, christianconcern.com; accessed 29 August 2018. Return to text.

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Readers’ comments

Tom G.
Only if the chaplains subscribed to the 'New Theology' with it's existentialism and situation ethics could they find themselves compatible with this humanist. A prime example of the New Theology is New Zealand theologian Prof Lloyd Geering who said, in effect, 'there is no God, but it helps if you believe there is one'!
Gavin Cox
Hi Tom, yes I think it would be very complicated as a Christian to work under a humanist chaplain. This is an example of how secularism is trumping religious freedoms in the UK, despite the supposed equal rights for all, there are some more equal than others as the saying goes.
S H.
It seems that anything goes if it is categorised under the heading of 'tolerance' or 'equality' (the god of the age). Ironic that those who claim to be tolerant and liberal are increasingly silencing differing viewpoints. It appears that tolerance and equality only exist if they confirm certain (non-Biblical) viewpoints. And how crazy that the very thing that offers hope, life, help and healing (God and the Bible) are the very things that there NHS of all places wants to mute! But there is hope and that is the Holy Spirit in us. A friend who works in education had to have different people of faith and beliefs in. They reported that the atheist who came in was so lifeless and what they said was so deadly that the light, life and joy of the Christians who spoke was reflected even more visibly and tangibly to the students and staff!
Ed M.
For context, a majority of UK citizens don't believe in God, and so the appointment of a Humanist as head of a pastoral unit is both perfectly reasonable and well-overdue, particularly as the UK government is currently looking to increase the number of religious leaders in the House of Lords to incorporate other religions, thereby extending the significant and undeserved religious privileges enjoyed by a minority of theists.

The question that Christians and other theists should be asking is "What right do we have to impose our middle-eastern doctrines on a predominantly atheist and agnostic population in northern Europe?", and if the answer is anything other than "We don't." then the non-religious majority in the UK would be justified in pressing for further concessions for secularism and the removal of existing religious privilege.
Gavin Cox
Hi Ed, thanks for your comment, which I disagree with. Firstly I would challenge your statement that "a majority of UK citizens don't believe in God"- which frames your entire argument. According to latest statistics (see http://www.brin.ac.uk/2018/counting-religion-in-britain-january-2018/) 50.7% identify as Christian, and including other faiths, 58.5% of the UK population believe in a God/ Higher Power. So no, I don't think it is 'well-overdue' for a humanist to be a head chaplain. But since when were atheists wanting to be classified as religious anyway? You state that Christians should be asking "What right do we have to impose our middle-eastern doctrines on a predominantly atheist and agnostic population in northern Europe?" Well actually history will tell you that Western Culture is founded upon the out-workings of the Christian Reformation, the founding fathers of science were all theists, our legal system is based upon the Ten Commandments, our universities were founded upon Christian principles, most of the hospitals and schools were founded by Christian philanthropists, workers rights were developed as a result of Christian care, the slave trade was abolished because of Christianity, we could go on... so you are enjoying the benefits of Christian society, which is not being imposed on you. Just because Christianity started in Israel does not make it "middle-eastern doctrine", it is not the geographical location that matters, but whether the doctrine is correct. Biblical Christianity is the bed-rock of Western society, and provides the ethical and moral framework for care because all humans are of equal worth and dignity- being made in the image of God.
James H.
This article and its subject could easily be mistaken for satire, easy fodder for comedians, though there is nothing funny here. A humanist chaplain. What an oxymoron!
Anthony B.
OED definition of 'good'- ' having the right qualities, satisfactory, adequate'.
This fits well with van Dijk's objectives, and what about Genesis 1:31 when God saw that 'it was good'.
Is God's 'good' different from van Dijk's 'good'?
Norman P.
Thank you for alerting us to this, and It is indeed a great sadness to see these evil trends. However, it is consistent with changes in society in recent decades, and above all, consistent with the Bible's depiction of events leading up to the return of Christ. The time when we could invoke tradition and custom have passed, and we must now stand equipped with the sword of the Spirit, and a quiet confidence in God through prayer. True Christians are now re-entering the spiritual climate of the First century AD: it is going to get tougher, but I believe we shall yet see Christ's name glorified, as we look to Him, and stand upon his word.
Bruce B.
It is weird enough that a humanist (atheist) is appointed to head a hospital chaplaincy but what was in the minds of those who made the appointment? I think I'm more worried about them than an spiritually-impotent humanist pretending to have the slightest grasp of what it means to be a loving, compassionate, bringer of comfort and hope to the sick and the dying. Try to imagine what is must be like for a terminally-ill patient longing for comfort, reassurance and hope beyond death to have their hand held by someone who cannot offer any of these things. Imagine in your last hours being told by your humanist comforter that, when you're dead, you're dead and that's it. What does a humanist say to grieving relatives who want to know what's happened to their deceased family member when, in their hearts and spirits, they intuitively know that death is not the end the humanists say it is? One can only wonder at the layers of self-deceit and hubris that allows an atheist to assume the mantle of chaplaincy, of ministry to the sick and dying. Can they not see nor understand that humanism has absolutely nothing to offer?
Ed M.
In response to Gavin Cox.

Firstly, thankyou for the reply and for allowing my comment to be posted. It would be easy for a site such as this to silence dissenters and I think you deserve credit for publishing an alternative view.

However, recent polls show a clear majority of non-believers in the UK ([link deleted per feedback rules]), and indeed the numbers of theists believing in other religions has exceeded the traditional Christian/Anglican tradition, while even amongst Christians a large number express their lack of belief in a literal God. The well-respected British Social Attitudes survey ([link deleted per feedback rules]) finds that religious belief is concentrated in the 60+ age group, where only 30% believe in God, while this number falls to just 2% amongst young adults. This is just the latest figures in an unmistakable trend that goes back to the 1960s.

This being the case, it is entirely reasonable to expect Humanist and non-religious ceremonies and celebrants to cater for the majority of non-believers; because since we live and die in the same way as theists it would be ridiculous to expect a theist to administer to our births and deaths....if indeed they would want to or could even understand the needs of people they consider to be "spiritually impotent".

I have no axe to grind against Britain's CofE/Catholic/Pagan religious history, which has for the most part been positive and beneficial. That is not to say that I think that a minority of mixed-faith theists should now deny the natural evolution of belief or ignore obvious changes of attitude to the detriment of a majority of non-believers.
Gavin Cox
Hi Ed,
Many thanks for your comment. If the surveys are accurate, then it is a sad situation for the church in the UK and a clarion call for believers to pray that God would revive His work as He did at times of national revival in this country in years gone-by. However I do disagree with your comment regarding death of theists and non-theists, I don't think believers and non believers live and die in the same way as you suggest. Christians who have faith in Christ as Lord and saviour have regularly expressed a deep sense of peace and even joy at their passing into the presence of the Lord to be with Him for eternity. I think the idea of slipping away into nothingness is profoundly disturbing and can only be a source of hopelessness and despair for the atheist? I am just not convinced that humanism can offer the kind of profound, deep, spiritual support needed that faith can naturally provide, (and I am particularly thinking of biblical Christianity of course)-because it offers a world-view of being in relationship to one's Creator. As I suggested in my article what ultimately can humanism/ atheism offer when, to quote Dawkins: “The universe we observe has … no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.” If this is true, then it is ultimately hopeless and futile, as an atheist once said to me "the point is- there is no point". For humanism to offer anything, it has to borrow heavily from the Christian world-view that it, at the same time, seeks to vanquish. I truly believe a post-Christian Britain is going to be a very hostile, futile and sad place to live in, but I pray it won't come to that. Thanks again for your comment.
John S.
When my mother was dying in hospital, they offered to send for the chaplain. I did not think to ask specifically for a Christian. It would have seemed rude to do so. Thanks for the warning.
Gary N.
Dear Creation Ministries:

Thank you for the insightful article on humanism. Like many dogmatic cults, philosophies, and dictator-states, the veiled dishonesty often starts with a misnomer to camouflage the reality. For example, the tyrannical East German State called themselves a democratic republic but woe to anyone who contradicted them. They were anything but democratic. Communism said everyone was equal until you disagreed with their philosophy. Cults have no place for conscience and punish severely anyone who disagrees with their dogmatic preaching. Evolutionists offer the same pontifical approach by forbidding free expression in schools to those who disagree and want to voice their opinion.

I find it ironic that those who proclaim humanism and respect to all, deny the same privilege the Christian nations have offered them—freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The title, ¨Humanism: neither healthy, nor humane¨ was a gem of a title and a gem of an article.
Gavin Cox
Many thanks for your comments Gary, much appreciated!
King T.
Atheists appear to have a very myopic outlook on life: they seem unable to discern what their religion will bring in terms of quality of life.
Right now, here in South Africa we can see where godlessness leads: disregard for public property(smashing and burning of buses, trains, stations etc.), people living behind high stone walls topped by electric fence, fear of being outside at night, fear of being mugged on hikes, cycling rides, cars high-jacked, being held at gunpoint and robbed in the malls, gangsters shooting it up in the neighborhood in broad daylight, being killed for little, daily reports of rape,bribery and corruption at any level and absolutely no respect for the law. I believe Britain is well on its way in copying this.

Behind all this lies a lack of family values, respect for elders and authority, respect for other people's lives and property and most importantly that internal element of self-control. These are all contained in the ten commandments.

With the destruction of the Christian values, the atheists/humanists will have to increasingly deal (well they won't, they'll simply find a way to blame all religion except their own) with the fall-out of people having no internal reason to restrain themselves.

Thus starting to fulfill the prophecy - Christ will not appear until the man of lawlessness is revealed.
Reg S.
.....humanists, “do not believe in a higher power, or a ‘god’, but … do believe in leading a good life right now”


That statement is a bit deluded, since God is the original and only source of all good, it is not really possible to be good without God...
Terry W.
"do not believe in a higher power, or a ‘god’, but … do believe in leading a good life right now"

Er... doesn't van Dijk realize what that reduces to?

"If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges?"

I'm not going to explain why Jeffrey Dahmer is famous; you can look it up if you like.
Harry B.
Wait a minute. Abortion is "reducing child mortality"? How does that work? How on earth does one reduce child mortality by murdering unborn infants? I would like to see some humanist explain this to the women in my family who have suffered the tragedy of repeated miscarriages (Yes, they are Christian women and clinging to God was the only way they got through the tragedy; can a humanist make that same claim?). This doesn't make sense. When Jesus said "suffer the little children to come to me" it's a safe bet he never meant the legalised murder that is abortion. I don't support abortion; never have, never will. As you ask in your article, where is the humanists' humanity? The humanists are one day in for a surprise. Let's hope and pray it's a good one when the realise Jesus is for real and loves them and wants to save them.
Gennaro C.
Hi Gavin, your article is absolutely eye-opening about the moral and spiritual way the world is going. "The rise of atheism and secular humanism in public life—in the UK and elsewhere—is a constant source of sorrow for Bible-believing Christians." [What] you say really is disturbing. But, if we keep in mind what Paul states in 2 Timothy 3;1-5 we do not need to marvel as if something dreadful is happening. The fall headlong of this humanity which I can appreciate in the span of my life (82 years), is beyond any imagination. But I can see in it the herald of the soon coming of Jesus and His glorious eternal kingdom. Soon the bullying of the princes of this world will be crushed under our feet. Yes, what is left for us is to pray for all those Christian people that are facing every kind of persecution.
Gavin Cox
Thank you Gennaro for your comment, all I can say is amen, come Lord Jesus come!

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