Feedback archive → Feedback 2015
Near-death experiences and the authority of Scripture
Published: 23 May 2015 (GMT+10)
J.K., from the UK, wrote:
I just have some questions regarding the afterlife, I’m struggling to understand all the evidence for God and such but the one that I want to believe in most is the afterlife. When Christians say that’s NDEs prove God I usually tend to think that this true but it got me thinking, when I began reading atheists explanations for them for example: we evolved the trait so they are all similar or DMT etc. So for me this doesn’t seem to prove much, and I feel that this is the only thing the afterlife has going for it. Atheists also say we distort evidence to fit our views.As many people have pointed out to me, the things we feel (human experience) can all be explained by the action of electrochemical reactions in the brain this then removes the need for the concept of the soul and since the soul hypothesis is untestable then it’s blind faith once again. I was just wondering if you knew of any evidence or could help me understand and settle my fears
Lita Cosner, CMI-US, responds:
Thanks for writing in. I actually believe NDEs are not trustworthy witnesses about what we can expect when we die. The brain does all sorts of weird things when a person is involved in trauma, and while I don’t doubt that the light, feelings of peace, etc, were things the person experienced, I don’t believe they are actually glimpses of heaven. See Two perspectives on near death experiences.
Rather, my belief in the afterlife is informed by Someone who actually died and came back to life—Jesus. He tells us that every person on Earth is going to live forever in one of two places, and what we believe about Him decides which. Every person is born in rebellion against God, and throughout our lives we demonstrate this by sinning. God’s justice demands that He judge sin (our justice demands that sin is paid for, too, but we’re just a lot more selective when it comes to our own ‘pet sins’), so people who die in this sinful, rebellious state go to Hell, a place of judgment and separation from God.
God could send every person to Hell and be perfectly just, because every person has sinned. But God loves us, and wanted to save a people for Himself. So He sent His Son to take on humanity. Jesus lived a perfect human life—never once sinning or failing to act completely righteously. Then He died in one of the cruelest, most humiliating ways possible, and God placed the judgment for the sins of the world on Him. He died in our place, was buried, and on the third day He rose. So He has unique authority to tell us about Heaven—which He died to make available to us, and Hell, which is the only option for those who reject Him.
Scripture tells us that those who trust Jesus go to be with Him when they die, and we call the place they go ‘Heaven’, though Scripture also calls it ‘Paradise’. To be in this place is better than living in the fallen world, but it is not the ultimate destination of the believer. Rather, all those who have believed in Jesus will be resurrected when He returns, and will live with Him forever in the restored New Heavens and Earth. The new earth will feature many of the things we love most about God’s creation—it couldn’t be called ‘earth’ at all if there was not some continuity—but none of the things that were introduced as a result of sin. Believers will worship God on the new earth, as well as serving Him in various functions. Scripture speaks of us ruling with Christ and judging angels—and there will doubtless be things that we couldn’t even begin to imagine in this existence. And the important thing to note here is: Scripture is the authority, not someone’s subjective experience.
As far as electrochemical reactions explaining human experience, it doesn’t come close. An orangutan might have electrochemical reactions in its brain fairly similar to those happening in mine, but it will never contemplate the role of those reactions in its own consciousness, or communicate its thoughts on the subject via language. And as such, these electrochemical reactions do not remove the possibility of a soul. See Brain chemistry and the fate of the personality after death, and The God spot.
As Christians, we take many things on faith, including the existence of the soul. But this faith is not blind—it is grounded in the authority of Jesus, who rose from the dead. So we do not have to be afraid that what He says might be wrong, or need to be revised in light of scientific understanding.
I hope this helps.
Readers’ comments
Whilst I had, what I can only describe as an "out of body experience", I lay no hope of salvation upon it. I was very much alive and awake at the time and far removed from any head trauma. All it did was teach me a lesson that is Scriptural: a lesson I still try to apply some twenty years later. I do not mention the experience much to people. Indeed, I've only mentioned it thrice in my life as far as I can recall. I only mention it here as there is a bit of anonymity with posting here. All my hope is based upon the Word of God and any experience I may, or may not, have must come second to the Word.
An old Christian friend had a quaint saying that he often quoted and I think it sums up this subject well. It went like this:
Feelings come, and feelings go;
Feelings are deceiving.
Our warrant is the Word of God;
None else is worth believing.
Keep up the good work, CMI.
This is a reply to your reply to me. You point out the Hebrew scripture of why we are to discount ones who have come back after dying. Are you forgetting all those who have been raised from the dead in the Bible?
Some Bible scholars have speculated Paul could have died from a stoning and raised from the dead by fellow believers. I don't believe you can dogmatically dismiss Paul from having a NDE, since Paul himself is not sure how he ended up in heaven.
Regards, Lee
There is nothing in the text itself to suggest that Paul had an NDE; it is pure speculation and must be regarded as such.
My reply may not be right but it is simple even from the Science plus reality perspective. If we get a hit on the head we often say we "See stars". Well that is simply an electrical stimulation that IN MY HUMBLE OPINION creates the sensation of light in the brains nerve endings.
I don't recommend you hit yourself that hard But; I assure you folks we do see light when we are hit hard enough. You may even died with such a hit. In such state one can come back sometimes and I believe it is Satan that leads us to differ with Gods written word. Scripture shows none but Jesus the risen one having come back from death. God/Jesus is the ONLY one that has the Power over the LAST ENEMY DEATH not Satan. Scripture leads me to believe the same with the lie of Out Of Body Experiences. It is Satan again playing games with people who likely have some faint but none the less a belief in the after life, even if it... 'appears to include'... Jesus with a smile. It is fakery from Satan. Trust the God of the Bible and none other.
Just something to share... Shalom from Dr Col in OZZIE land.
Implying that spiritual activity can occur, but we have the trustworthy guide and principles of scripture. For those who claim meeting Jesus through an NDE, the 'test' would be in the fruit resulting their life - not that it tests the NDE per se, but the ongoing experience of Jesus in their life - was/is *that* real? After all, that is what non-Christians will truly respond to. So I won't limit God by defining NDE categorically if I do not have to - better to focus on whatever life-changing Jesus experience that person had, associated with it!
Thanks for your wonderful ministry.
I'm glad you pointed JK back to scripture as the only proven/reliable source of information about what happens after death. Any other source must of course be tested (1Jn4:1-2), which suggests, if the cited passage means anything at all, that there are those that can pass the test and bring some kind of revelation from God, right? In fact, what you have said about the bible being the only possible way for God to communicate something to us doesn't seem to hold up to your own test--scripture doesn't say such a thing. Now, I would agree that NDEs as a group can't pass the test, but is it possible that some of the reports are true? I don't think you should dismiss them all completely, especially since the Bible doesn't (according to what you have written) record much on the matter, except to point out that sometimes dreams (Pharaoh's, Nebuchadnezzar's, the Midianite soldier's for Gideon), visions or out of body experiences, (Paul's, Ezekiel's, John's, perhaps) can be used by God to convey some kind of information. And God never said He would never use those methods anymore. The hard part, of course, is how to know if the experiences can be trusted, and I believe you have made a good case that as a whole they shouldn't be trusted. Even if someone says, according to 1Jn4, that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, the content of the message can't disagree with what God has already told us. But some things, like a rainbow horse for example, can't really be refuted or confirmed, though it seems ridiculous, because the bible says nothing about all the different things Jesus may have in heaven. To say He has no rainbow horse may be just as fallacious as to say that He has a rainbow horse.
The Bible says that God gave certain people dreams and visions. The Bible does not say that certain people died and came back. In fact, Hebrews 9:27 seems to negate the possibility of NDEs. If we are going to say that God continues to use the same means, it presupposes that God previously used NDEs, and I don't think you can establish that from Scripture.
I do agree that scriptures form our doctrines and never NDE's or visions. Yet do believe that God uses such things to encourage the body of Christ while also convincing some unbelievers to explore Christian doctrines more closely.
Scripture says that it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The biblical visions of heaven did not occur in an NDE context.
Let's not fall for the same old deception. God's Word, whether spoken to man as it was with Adam, or written for man as He has graciously provided it to us who live today, is the sole authority on whether God exists, who He is, what happens when we leave this mortal life [Heb 9:27], and what awaits each person in the next life [Matt 25:31-46]
Let God be true, but every man a liar [Rom 3:4]
Honestly I didn't know what my standpoint would be on NDE's, but you have answered with wisdom and I love how you always refer back to scripture.
As to why the validity of NDE's, I have had some pretty realistic but completely fantastical dreams. So much for the brain only doing what is worthwhile... and I also remember Gary Bates book on aliens, where people had "realistic" experiences of visitations. I agree that the brain can do some really weird (interesting) things, and especially so under trauma where there is perhaps no mental blocks of our hope's and fears.
This is just a rant of my own thoughts, but thanks for getting me to use the grey matter to actually think about it and not just respond emotionally.
This reminds me of the issue surrounding alien encounters that Gary has spoken so much about. I think if CMI took any different view than what Lita articulates here then the principles upholding Gary Bates' arguments in Alien Intrusion would be found of no significance all of a sudden.
Sola Scriptura is particularly valuable to the Protestant faith and I don't think modern day Christians realize why. It under-girds so much of our thinking and reasoning as Christians.
There are many other scriptures regarding this vision if you read or watch Bill Wiese's testimony. The reason why God sent Bill to Hell, which was through a vision that I am speaking about is because, not every Christian believes in Hell, because the bible is not being taught properly in churches and so Bill was sent to hell in order tell people of this Horrific place that actually exists if people continue to rebel against God. Bill even says that that they shouldn't focus on him as he is just the sign post, but should focus on God. God Bless
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses— though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me." (2 Cor 12:2-6).
Also, I wasn't criticizing you of being a materialist, I said the idea you held regarding brain & consciousness smacked of materialism. We all hold conflicting beliefs at one time or another. I know I did and probably (and unfortunately) still do. Life - and learning - is a process. Lastly, I don't know of any Biblical teaching that God cannot or will not resurrect a dead person. On the contrary, if it brings Him glory, there is much in the Bible that supports it.
I think both evolutionist, and many religious people (including Christians). Add unnecessary 'meaning' to those things that others have told us have happened. NDE's have obviously garnered some kind of this x evolved so y would be more likely. Christians say x was experienced so y must be true. It is all relative to the 'testimony' or experience of a strange occurrence.
I believe if Christians are able to understand that the very foundation, by that I mean the only thing, from which we were created is God's Word. If this is accepted, then any event must be referenced to this bedrock. Strange things can be viewed with this lens, and then meaning added to them accordingly.
I used to think the goal was to try and remove bias and 'lens' from all interpretations (an admittedly post modern influence). I now believe that people are incapable of living without lenses. We must instead try to remove the constricting lenses that we have used to create 'meaning' and try to put on the lenses that God has made for us with his Word.
The struggle is to not incorporate something into your 'lens' before testing it with Scripture.
I think both evolutionist, and many religious people (including Christians). Add unnecessary 'meaning' to those things that others have told us have happened. NDE's have obviously garnered some kind of this x evolved so y would be more likely. Christians say x was experienced so y must be true. It is all relative to the 'testimony' or experience of a strange occurrence.
I believe if Christians are able to understand that the very foundation, by that I mean the only thing, from which we were created is God's Word. If this is accepted, then any event must be referenced to this bedrock. Strange things can be viewed with this lens, and then meaning added to them accordingly.
I used to think the goal was to try and remove bias and 'lens' from all interpretations (an admittedly post modern influence). I now believe that people are incapable of living without lenses. We must instead try to remove the constricting lenses that we have used to create 'meaning' and try to put on the lenses that God has made for us with his Word.
The struggle is to not incorporate something into your 'lens' before testing it with Scripture.
The Bible disproves materialism. We don't need weird, contradictory experiences to do that.
In all the responses questioning the conclusion I came to in my article, no one has once cited any Scripture, but rather the subjective experiences of individuals. Which just proves my point.
Habermas: "There are much more evidential cases which indicate that God works in individual lives.
More explicitly, I am referring to well-evidenced reports from others, but which we may have never witnessed for ourselves. For example, a) incredible healings, b) non-healing answers to prayer like a double-blind experiment that has been published in a medical journal, c) experiences with angels, d) experiences with demons, e) incredibly well-evidenced near-death experiences (NDEs). On a more personal note, in some of these NDEs we may wonder about someone who reports that they stood next
to Jesus and experienced the most fantastic love ever, and wanted to go back immediately instead of living the rest of their lives here on earth! f) In dozens of very interesting cases, God seems to have paved the way on the mission field by some very incredible means, before the Gospel came to particular people groups, and so on. Please note that I basically only collect cases that are accompanied by some rather impressive data. A fair amount of these items has been written up in medical journals, for example." It's mere hand waving to say that the "brain does all sorts of weird things" when traumatized. You just don't know what the brain does during trauma or at any stage during the transition from life on earth to eternal life (or death). Consciousness is not the brain. That idea smacks of materialism.
Your daughter's experience was probably vivid, and seemed real. But it must be judged by Scripture and Scripture alone.
my body was in trauma, yes, but I was well able to understand what was happening and I asked questions that were answered through this oput of body, there I asked more questions, and got more answers, even the reason I was sent back to continue living on earth, the other real truth is simple, heaven is nothing like we know while here on earth, and my guess is that until someone has such an experience they will not be able to comprehend. in fact many people reading Jesus description just cant get a grip of it because of their EARTH BOUND EXPERIANCES ONLY-. but then sadly the concept of hell frightens them no end, so they don't believe it either, sad really. believe the bible and make a decision for Christ and one will have no fear,
rod qld aust
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