Readers’ comments:
Jeff C., United States, 6 November 2011
First Christian Rap is not new, PID and ETW (END TIME WARRIORS) ETC were rapping
back in the 80’s, Christian Rock around 1965 with THE PEACEMAKERS and MIND GARAGE
1967, to name some. God created the voice so when the voice is used to glorify him
that is good, God created electricity, which is used to make and electric guitar
Rock. All creation (electricity) proclaims his name, I say chill, the music you
listen to might have roots you are not aware of.
Destiny Lab, United States, 7 November 2011
Thank you so much Gary for taking the time to put this article together on our behalf
and thank all of you for your kind comments and encouraging words. We are only strengthened
and empowered when the enemy tries to thwart our ministry … be sure we will remain
steady on our destined course … a third album is in the works!! God bless you all!!
Destiny Lab
Terence T., South Africa, 7 November 2011
Brilliantly written Gary! I think a book could be written on this subject but you
have done well in covering a lot of ground. There is only one other point I would
like to add in my own belief. Satan cannot create. He can only destroy, twist and
warp. As you pointed out God obviously created music. Therefore to give any genre
of music to satan by saying for example “rap music is evil” in my mind is a subtle
worship of satan and acknowledgment satan does not deserve. As Christians we should
take it back. I often thank God for the faithful warriors of His who take back territory
in the different musical genres considered out of bounds for us as Christians.
Judie S., Australia, 7 November 2011
When rock music was popular, I heard almost exactly the same arguments against that.
The one I thought most laughable was “Rock music is written in 4/5 time! It’s the
same beat as the human heart & acts straight on the emotions.” I had never heard
of 4/5 time & knew perfectly well that people’s hearts beat at different rates.
My brother used to say that the only reason people objected was that rock was black
music, which I found almost as laughable.
I said then & say now that the words are what makes ANY music (including Country,
which was held up as being moral, godly music despite some disgusting country songs
I knew) either godly or ungodly.
Ben K., Canada, 7 November 2011
Destiny lab is the only Christian music I listen to because I find the
traditional Christian music to be too fluffy. My kids listen to it too and they
think it’s great. After seeing DL featured in the last issue of Creation I bought
both albums and can hardly wait until they put out another one. Keep up the good
work DL and don’t let the judgemental Christians get you down!
Wendy R., Australia, 7 November 2011
Good onya mate! A very reasoned and sensible article about a highly emotive topic.
Rap music is certainly not my favourite genre of music either, but that is mainly
due to the truly disgusting and largely evil lyrics of most rap songs (if you can
decipher the lyrics!), and the incredibly loud (eardrum-bursting) volume at which
most of it is played.
Well done to DL for choosing to go out into the world, but not be part of it (a
good example for ALL Christians). And well done Gary for not shying away from controversy
and giving us such a clear explanation of a (sometimes) bewildering issue.
Peter C., Saudi Arabia, 7 November 2011
Awesome article! I totally agree-art is a form of expression. I’ve heard amazing
Christian rap artists with great lyrics and it really helps reach out to the current
generation who like this form of music.
Gaye M., Australia, 7 November 2011
Well said! I was really excited when I read that original article and I showed it
to my children. What a great example of those boys using their God-given talents
in a mission field that is open to them. At the other end of the scale, I’ve used
Irish dance in praise & worship.
Blessings to you and the Destiny Lab boys!
Shamus M., Australia, 7 November 2011
BEAUTFIFULLY AND ACCURATELY STATED GARY AS ALWAYS. WELL DONE. GOD BLESS.
Steven S., United States, 7 November 2011
Good thoughts. Reading some of Shae Lynn’s lyrics opened my mind to the rap style.
Being over 60 it is no way my preference but such Christian rap artists display
none of the angry rebellious tone that I hear in secular rap. And the theology is
far better than some of the songs my generation gets sentimental over!
Brian C., United Kingdom, 7 November 2011
Thank you for a well-balanced response to a potentially thorny issue. If this group
“sing” lyrics that clearly promote biblical truth then that must be to the good
given that the words of so many “Christian” songs aimed at popular culture are vague
at best and often devoid of any identifiable Gospel or biblical content.
Brett E., United States, 7 November 2011
I’m a youth leader who happens to love rap music. I just let my youth group listen
to many of the Christian rap artists on my MP3 player and they were shocked to hear
great beats with excellent lyrics. They like rap too and said they didn’t know this
was out there. They said now they can enjoy the music without feeling bad for listening
to the secular message. I am taking them through a Biblical Worldview course and
explained that what you put in your heart is what’s going to show in your actions
and thoughts. I have no doubt there have been many people come to our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ due to this music. God uses many tools to touch different people. I
pray we will use discernment when judging if something is biblical or not. There
are definitely some practices out there that are not biblical and are leading people
astray. True Christian rap is very good, so long as the lyrics match up with what
the Bible says. Always check everything according to Scripture.
Emmanuel N., Switzerland, 7 November 2011
Curiously, when I received the Creation with this article, I was too sure
that it would result with negative comments. I play in a Christian Extreme Metal
band named Demoniciduth for years and have heard all sorts of comments. But most
of the comments were based on the intensity of the music, viewed as brutal. It is
then argued that it’s incompatible with God’s attributes such as love and peace.
So I will say that those Christians limit God’s attributes. What about God’s wrath?
God’s judgement? Most Christian Metal bands have lyrics which are focused on the
power of God, the wrath of God, because it is addressed to listeners who are quite
hostile to Christianity, the Extreme Metal scene being predominantly satanic. I
cannot imagine the kind of lyrics we use with soft music. As Gary Bates points,
I think music is amoral and can be labeled bad only according to the lyrics. It’s
worth citing the experience of the singer for the Christian Hard band Disciple.
He saw a street preacher and listened to him. Then he came to thank him for what
he was doing. But the preacher replied: “How can you be of God when you look, dress,
and smell like the world?” He said: “I’m sorry that you haven’t been around me long
to see the fruit of my life so you can rightly judge. But if we’re going to judge
only on appearances, then you look no different than every crooked thief on Wall
Street in a suit and tie”.
John S., United Kingdom, 07 November 2011
It seems to me there is not enough thought about music-in church it is always something
imposed on the congregation which may be one reason there is so much anger about
it. I was singing loud and lusty one time, as the music was loud and lusty-as though
we had won the World Cup. Then I suddenly realised that the words were penitential-sorrow
for sin! How ridiculous I suddenly sounded! We need less of the thoughtless one-size-fits-all
approach. As for music being amoral-really? I don’t think one can be sure about
that. Music does things to us otherwise there would be no point having it. The question
is, what does it do? If it dulls our mental faculties, I would say watch out. Personally
I think musicians have more power in the church than they know what to do with.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for the comments. Let’s remember that God invented music and mainly as a
means of worship to Him, so obviously there is an emotional factor or aspect to
it.
In new edition of my book Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection
I demonstrated how vulnerable people are to seemingly innocuous subliminal messaging
and in the wrong hands such things can be dangerous. Hence again, it is the lyrics
that make the song appropriate or not. If the same mood inspiring melody (and lyrics),
causes one to be emotional drawn to God, then very few of us would argue that is
wrong.
As the article said, such things are a wisdom issue that requires a balanced approach
as with many things in this fallen world where sin inordinately twists thing—often
things that were meant for good can be twisted for evil. I would still argue that
the music or melody in itself is not the problem.
Barry E., Canada, 8 November 2011
As a Christian, I am extremely pleased with your response to this issue. I applaud
you (and by implication, CMI) for your foresight and personal integrity in acknowledging
that many aspects of any culture can be essentially morally neutral; and yes, even
musical styles. Because of this fact, they can (at least theoretically), be used
to edify the individual human spirit and to glorify our creator God, in spite of
what may be prevailing “christian” opinion to the contrary.
Although I certainly believe and accept CMI’s central message that compromise on
the origins issue (the Bible versus Darwinism/Evolution) has been paramount in the
decline of the influence of the church over the last several decades, I have also
come to believe that the failure of the church to recognize the distinction between
the mere elements of a culture(specifically, our western culture) and the indulgence
in the sinful application of those cultural elements, has meant that there has always
been a diminishing repertoire of things a Christian can do without fear of condemnation
from other believers.
Decades before our entertainment industry became the immoral and anti-God quagmire
it is today, we had some “holiness” churches telling their congregations that radio
was the “devil’s voice in your home,” TV was “hellivision” and co-ed skating was
immoral because it invariably was accompanied by “worldly” music which meant it
was as “immoral” as dancing. If you decided that you would try to provide your own
entertainment by playing a game of cards at home, well, that was the “devils picture
book” and by using such a tool you would probably become a gambler, a smoker and
a drinker.
I recognize that the rationale for the church’s actions was undoubtedly quite well
intended at the time, as the primary motive was probably to keep the individual
Christian from falling into a habitual sinful state. But ultimately, it was just
another enabling of legalism, which the scriptures have plenty of negative things
to say about. In retrospect, I believe that when the church as a whole effectively
disengaged itself from western culture, it greatly accelerated our societal decline
to the abominable state we find it in today.
Timothy J., United States, 8 November 2011
It is a wonderful and well written article. Because I listen to Christian Rock and
Rap I hear many comments. I also remind others that God created music and loves
all kinds. If you have any questions about what he may allow just read Psalm 150. I think that spells it out quite clearly.
Bill H., United States, 8 November 2011
Martin Luther was criticized for utilizing the popular music of the day for the
melody of some of his hymns; some members of his congregation considered it too
worldly. Destiny Lab’s following a great tradition.
Andy O., Canada, 8 November 2011
I’m also a Christian rapper and I’m happy with the way you handled this article.
Paul Washer, a preacher definitely not known for endorsing worldly practices, endorsed
Christian rap calling it a picture of how we, as Christians, we redeemed from the
power of Satan, so this music which is known to carry evil messages, is being redeemed
for the use of God’s glory. Grace and peace.
(p.s. if your looking for more great Christian rappers, look up Lecrae, Tedashii,
Shai linne and Andy Mineo)
Pat G., United States, 8 November 2011
I have one of Ladysmith Black Mambazo’s recordings of their Christian music. As
a trained musician (having been trained since the age of 3, and as a professional
artist) I can tell you that the style of singing really isn’t that different from
Bach’s chorales! In fact, what really intrigues me is the way in which most music
the world over is based on the same mathematical ratios! There truly is godly order
in real music.
[Gary] Gary Bates responds:
A hallmark of the Creator methinks.
It is critical to analyze the music itself. I don’t have a problem with people using
rap to convey the Christian message. That’s not my quarrel here. We should examine
the physiological effects of various styles of music. The heavy beat that characterizes
so many styles actually causes a physiological reaction, akin to carnal arousal.
[Gary] I would agree. BTW if you mean carnal as in sexual, I’m
not sure that is always the case. Much would depend upon the lyrics, the setting
or the environment. No one doubts that music can create feelings or invoke moods.
We see it in church every Sunday. It’s when it is used to invoke inappropriate feelings
that it is the problem. As I said, it is a wisdom issue. Even so much of what is
good and was even God ordained is twisted for evil intent.
This would not be appropriate in church, though as an evangelistic tool, the style
may be helpful. On another hand, I can’t tell you what music David danced to, but
I can tell you that the music to which the Old Testament was chanted during those
times is actually very similar to the liturgy and Gregorian chant of today’s liturgical
churches. The melodies are different, but the style is the same. Not only that,
but liturgical music is the only music that appears to quote the Bible directly,
and which is heavy in doctrinal content (which in general is lacking in many churches
today.) Our churches have done a grave disservice to throw away the rich artistic
and musical heritage that has accumulated through a couple of millenia of Christian
worship and practice. If you want to use new styles of music for worship, fine,
but not at the expense of that rich heritage.
[Gary] Interesting thoughts.
When you look at the newest forms of visual art, you will often see very disordered
minds, no beauty, just ugliness and violence, whether through representational or
abstract means. I hold that if it isn’t beautiful, it’s not art.
[Gary] I agree. It’s excused as saying beauty is in the eye of
the beholder. I think so much of what passes for art is just plain garbage. However,
I see a difference between the visual aspects of art as opposed to music. Art causes
us to see visual images and we know that visual images can have a powerful effect
on the mind and spirit.
Sometimes we should think of music in worship in a similar way. What kinds of music
do you think God likes best, and what do you think pleases His ear? We would do
well to realize that because God prescribed this style of worship and perhaps even
the melodies, to the ancient Hebrews, He is most pleased with the music that grows
out of that heritage. Just something to think about.
[Gary] I think that your analyses is somewhat subjective though,
and one will never find complete agreement amongst a range of people. Let’s go back
to the Ladysmith example. That is a style that has been traditionally used in South
Africa. Hmm! Does God only like American traditional hymn singing. If so, (hypothetically),
therefore when we reach a third world culture for Christ and then they singing in
their native style, would that not meet with God’s approval because it was not of
the style that the Hebrews used, for example. Anyway, it’s a bit of a moot point.
In my article I pointed out that the style was not being used for worship, but for
evangelism. Rap has a strong lyrical content that the boys are able to use to preach
messages of sin, repentance and salvation.
To get a really good example of the variety of styles of music that I personally
believe please God, you would do well to listen to Sing for Joy on WCPE (streaming
on theclassicalstation.org) every Sunday morning at 7:30 eastern time. The folks
who program these half hour segments have excellent taste, and do present Christian
music from many different styles.
[Gary] Again, using your personal preferences is a subjective thing
for the reasons I mentioned before.
Neil P., New Zealand, 10 November 2011
“Paul said if Christ aint resurrected we wasted our lives,
Well that imply that our lives built around Jesus being alive,
Everyday I live I try to show the world why,
Christ is more than anything you’d ever try,
Better than pretty women and sinning and living to get a minute of any woman and
men that you admire
It aint no lie!
We created for Him,
Out of the dust he made us for Him,
Elects us and he saved us for Him,
Jesus comes and he raised us for Him,
Magnify the Father, why bother with something lesser?
He made us so we could bless Him,
To the world we confess Him,
Resurrects Him,
So I know I got life,
Matter fact better than that I know I got Christ,
If you don’t see His ways in my days in my nights,
You can hit my breaks you can stop my life,
Man I lost my rights, lost my life,
Forget the money, cars and toss that ice,
The cost is Christ,
And they can never offer me anything any better that would cost that price”
‘Don’t waste your life’ Lecrae
—Sounder theology and greater passion than many of the worship songs I sing in my
local church. I thank God for his witness. :)
Michael R., New Zealand, 17 November 2011
My two cents: If there is any kind of music playing with a heavy, unnatural beat
(such as the rock backbeat) it wears me down spiritually. Rhythm is associated with
the body, not the soul or spirit, and most of these styles of “music” are almost
entirely rhythm, with very little melody or harmony. If your body is being stimulated
by an addiction (yes, it is an addiction) your spirit will have a harder time getting
through.
Gary Bates responds:
I couldn’t agree Michael. As I wrote, there is no question that music can be used
to create moods and influence people. That’s why I said it was a wisdom issue. Every
Sunday in church we are stirred emotionally by the music regardless of what type
it is. Music can even be used for evil motives, and one can construct melodies,
rhythms and lyrics with that in mind. No one was suggesting that we should use heavy
rock or even rap for worship. I was merely defending DL’s right to penetrate an
ungodly medium for Christ.
Colin N., Australia, 18 November 2011
I personally don’t like rap, but that means nothing. I think it was said when the
Christians of a by-gone era began to use music-hall tunes etc, “Why should the devil
have all the good music?” From what I understand, some of the tunes we love to sing
hymns to are from non-Christian sources. Let’s get our eyes on glorifying God and
not pulling others down. Let’s praise God that these young men have the desire to
reach out with the truth. They are not indulging in anything that can be construed
as sin. Leave them alone-no; better still pray that they are used by God.
Adam B., Australia, 18 November 2011
Great article Gary. As a new convert a few years ago, it wasn’t long before I was
convicted to get rid of my worldly heavy metal for the baleful influence it had
on my outlook on life. It was only 1 or 2 weeks later that I met a guy at our church
who introduced me ‘Disciple’ and other God fearing metal bands. The songs had an
average of 9 scriptures per song and it helped me memorise a lot of scripture early
on in my walk. Praise God for all different manners with which we can worship Him!
Pete L., Australia, 18 November 2011
Good article. I’ve never been into mainstream styles of music and have always struggled
with the notion that some styles of music are more “holy” than another.
I can hear a bit of a Cyprus Hill influence in some of Destiny Lab’s songs, although
I certainly wouldn’t encourage anyone to go out and listen to Cyprus Hill, as the
lyrics are not very wholesome at all! I would recommend listening to Destiny Lab
though.
In addition to Andy O.’s list of Christian rappers, I can also add that ‘The Ambassador’
is really good. I bought his album ‘The Thesis’ a couple of years ago.
Elijah L., Singapore, 18 November 2011
A lot of people argue at what I call the methodology level. At the end of the day,
we all need to discern what is actually pleasing to God. Just because we dress conservatively
and sing hymns doesn’t mean God is pleased with our growth, our relationship with
Him and other Christians. God looks on the heart. Even if we adopt a wrong method
to please God, but our heart is right, God will show us what really pleases Him
as we move forward. However, that may not absolve us from consequences. King David
attempted to bring the Ark back to Jerusalem using an ox cart. Where did he get
that idea? Philistines. Did David know about how the Ark was supposed to be transported?
Certainly. Even if he didn’t, the priests certainly did. So, let’s not argue about
methods, but focus on what pleases God and is consistent with His Word and promptings
of God’s Holy Spirit. If our heart is right, but our methods are wrong, God is faithful
and just to show us. However, we also need to look diligently into issues and get
the truth around them. Let us obey the whole counsel of God, not follow our own
hearts’ inclinations, and He will keep us. Me? I just follow good music according
to sound musical principles that are pleasing to God as I know it now.
Shane V., South Africa, 18 November 2011
Thank you for the article.
I have a strong inclination to side with the comments of Pat G of the USA.
The word “carnal” means fleshly or in the flesh as opposed to spiritual. Not necessarily
only sexual.
The tempo of the music determines to which side a persons underlying psyche or thoughts
are going to head towards. There has been much study done on this which can be cited
upon request. There is a particular signature to the beat of the music that is claimed
to be an indicator. At risk of being incorrect I believe that it is 2/4 , if the
music makes you want to bop your head/neck up and down on the beat in time, then
it is more than likely on shaky territory.
Pastor Ivor Myers will have lots to say on that having been a successful Rap Artist
turned Christian Rapper turned Pastor.
Music, decides the “mood” much more than the lyrics. This view is supported by the
popular musicians themselves that are blatant about their anti-Christian views as
well as scholars and critics.
When choosing music styles for worship it is probably prudent to do old things a
new way and new things in an old way.
I will however not criticize anyone trying to promote the Gospel through any means
of music. God judges the heart, we cannot.
The medium of the lyrics is the music, the medium carries the content which is the
lyrics: The medium of pornography is photography or cinematography or print, the
content you are probably all aware of to certain degree. If I were to use a Christian
married couple to perform an intimate, sexual act to be captured on camera, have
I manufactured Christian Pornography? Hence can there be such a thing as true Christian
Heavy Metal.
We are told that we are to worship in spirit and truth. Worshiping in the spirit
without the truth is not the whole deal, it might make us feel good, but what does
God actually want?
As another commentator Terence T wrote, that Satan cannot create only twist, I would
like to suggest that any media we have are God given and all can be twisted to suit
Satan’s devices. Whether the medium/media are audio or video or others, we need
to be discerning.
Well done to DL for trying to get the message out.
I think that music is a choice that one makes according to the power of one’s convictions
and the instruction of the Holy Spirit.
Gary Bates responds:
I concur with much of what you write here, and the article actually mentioned that
this is a wisdom issue that requires a balanced approach that considers many aspects.
We’ve been unable to even publish a couple of responses due to name calling and
profanities hurled by ‘Christians’ who disagree and say that rock, pop or rap is
‘of the devil’. It’s quite ironic given their approach to the article! The article
also mentioned that music can be used for evil and there is no question it can inspire
moods, but as I stated, if those beats and melodies were designed to create a mood
of worship, then nobody seems to have an issue with that. Again, why I said it is
a wisdom issue. But the major point most keep missing is that the article never
said or suggested that such music forms be used for worship. It was a defence of
DL’s methodology or penetrating a dark culture for Christ. Thanks for your observations.
Shane V. replies:
Thank you very much for your kind response.
Being a “good Christian” can obviously be very difficult sometimes and hence the
kneejerk abuse hurling. It is very easy to condemn others.
I agree on your points of the article not condoning the style of music nor condemning
it. I have the actual article in the Creation mag at home. Also, that it is a valid
means to shine light into a place where light would otherwise not shine.
Ivor Myers for instance did a handsome amount of work preaching the grace of Jesus
Christ while rapping before stepping out of the fray.
Maintaining a balance as you say, is the key.
Derek O., Australia, 19 November 2011
I’ve thought and observed and read about music for over ten years since my conversion.
My perception has changed over time to one similar to what you have shared here
Gary. I do believe though that while music essentially is morally neutral, it is
not emotionally neutral. Music of any kind will affect the mind and body, whether
we like it or not. Though perhaps if we listen critically we might avoid that.
My point is, I think we need to be informed and educated regarding music and its
effects. But this is outside the realms of religion, it’s to do with science and
physiology. Only this way can we find a balanced view of the matter.
So what this means to me is this. I have listened to ‘Christian’ rap before (ETW
for example), but I am not likely to listen to Destiny Lab. I’ve concluded that
rap music does not help me to stay focused and ‘on an even keel’ so to speak. Maybe
it works for someone else, I’m not sure that it does, but that’s up to them. If
people ask me for advice on musical choices, I’m probably not going to suggest they
start listening to rap.
On the other hand, I know there are so many people out there who listen to rap music
and I am so glad there are people like Destiny Lab who are going to those places,
entering that world, in an effort to bring truth and light there. I don’t feel threatened,
as many do, by Christian people entering these musical genres. God wants people
to bring light to all places. But at the same time, he does want us to be looking
after our minds and bodies. Musical choices, for those of us who have light and
who know better, are a part of that.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for your email. I would actually concur with much of what you say and the
article did say that music can create moods and that a balanced/wisdom view should
be applied (like you state). We are affected every Sunday when we go to church and
worship—are emotions are heightened and we are drawn to God as a result. It’s when
such mediums are used for ungodly things that it becomes a problem. I’m glad you
can see though that DL are using the medium for evangelism and not advocating this
style of music for worship—I’ve spoken to them and they want to reinforce that point.
Michael B., United States, 19 November 2011
The argument if not moot is bogged down in deciding between the lesser of two evils.
It is not about whats new or old, pop or traditional it is about why we need to
borrow anything from a dying world to present a Gospel of new life. Does the gospel
need help, must it be propped up with help from the pop culture. Doesn’t it stand
on its own?
Christ’s life and message is beyond the past, the present or the future and all
that is or ever was in them. It comes from the realm of the eternal and it leads
back to that realm. The world should borrow from the kingdom not the other way around.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for your considered comments. I’m not sure what you actually mean by the
lesser of two evils. I think the idea of the Gospel somehow needing help is a bit
of an artificial construct, respectfully. God doesn’t ‘need’ any of us, including
you or me, or anything, but He does choose to use us, and consequently we use ‘things’
to point to Him. The article mentioned how Paul subjugated things of the world to
point them to the Creator (Acts 17). Isn’t that what DL are doing? Your comments remind
me of an article written by Dr Carl Wieland called
Caged Lions. I recommend reading it, which you can do by clicking the link.
Dawn T., United States, 19 November 2011
Thank you for covering this issue. Though I, personally, can’t stand the rhythm
and sound of rap music of any kind (and a couple of other music genres for that
matter), I think it’s GREAT that this is opening up for those who enjoy it. I recently
did a bunch of research on music in the church and found that the arguments against
rap music in the Church are EXACTLY the same as there have been REPEATEDLY over
the centuries for anything “new” introduced to the Church. Whether it was the introduction
of the organ or piano, both of which were considered “worldly” when they first came
into the Church, or certain music styles (again accused of being “worldly”). Or
even when the hymns that some hold up as so holy were first added-they caused a
HUGE controversy and actually split churches because only psalms and chants were
used in churches at that time.
Two things struck me about the whole issue when I was doing my research.
First, the arguments are always EXACTLY the same. It’s that whole legalism about
tradition-“Why do we need to do anything different than what we’ve always done?”
Isn’t getting stuck in a tradition rut something the Bible warns us about repeatedly?
The Jewish believers were certainly warned about it often enough!
Second, it truly DEVALUES other people. God created us as creative people with a
great deal of ingenuity and imagination. (Ok, granted, I know some folks who don’t
have a creative bone in their body, but most of us are creative in some way, shape
or form.) When we say there’s no “Christian” value in something just because it’s
“new” (not really a decent argument since there’s “nothing new under the sun”),
we devalue the folks God has gifted to share Him in that way. We might as well say
there’s no need for new books, no need for anyone to be artistic in any fashion
because we have enough paintings or whatnot, no need for new inventions, etc.
THE most important thing to consider with ANYTHING, whether it’s music or anything
else for that matter, is this–is it Godly? Is it in step with Scripture? Does it
glorify God? If it does, even if we personally don’t care for the presentation,
we need to back off and leave it alone. We need to esteem others as more important
than ourselves (Philippians 2:3-4) and recognize that God made us all very
different, so we all have different tastes in music and such.
We use some music in our Church that I personally don’t like-the rhythm and beat.
But I know others enjoy it, so I leave it be. We do things I enjoy that I know others
don’t like, too. As long as a song is scriptural, I see no problem with it, even
if it doesn’t appeal to my personal taste in music.
We, in the Church, really need to get over ourselves, imo.
Mike N., United States, 19 November 2011
All I can say is that we need to be very careful about what we endorse in the name
of our creator. I recently went to a Night Vision concert. While there were some
good messages being taught there, overall it was nothing more than a rock concert
(of the worldly kind) and yet it was supposed to be Christian. You could not tell
from the way people talked and dressed. We should remember that we are to stay a
way from all appearance of evil.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks Mike. I concur. It sounds like the concert you visited didn’t appear very
Christian, but I think that makes my point about balance and wisdom as I mentioned
in the article. I’ve seen too often how even Christians will justify ungodly pursuits
by trying to “Christianize’ them. There is always a delicate balance. At the end
of the day, God judges the heart and therefore the motive. I know that DL’s motive
was to reach into the darkness to shine the light of Christ, without becoming like
the darkness. I think their efforts should be applauded.
Robert S., United States, 19 November 2011
Preamble: I am 21 years old, a college senior, majoring in History at Thomas Edison
State College in NJ, USA. I love and frequent creation.com, and Praise the Lord
for your service. Now, on to this article, I deeply appreciate Dr. Bates’ intelligent
thoughtfulness and sincerity, but was very confused over his conclusions. I have
felt, from both my observations and experience as a young Christian guy, that mixing
Christ and the world is actually one of the most compelling reasons behind the mass
exodus of Christian youth from the church today. I would plead with Dr. Bates to
listen to this short series on music. I would love to know what he thinks of it.
I would just love to hear Dr. Bates’ thoughts: he is obviously a Spirit-filled,
vastly intelligent man. Here is the link: https://www.audioverse.org/english/sermons/seriess/452/seyc-2011-seminar-music.html
By the way, the presenter is a former Hip-Hop star from NYC. I’d love to hear your
thoughts if you ever get around to listening to the mini-series. God Bless!!
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for your email and kind words. BTW I should point out that I am not a Dr.,
just plain Mr. will do.
The simple facts are that many people can be damaged not so much by music but the
lifestyles that often accompany it. A certain music genre can definitely draw people
into a certain culture. Therefore the music can be used for good or for evil, and
we see evidence of that in most genres, whether pop, rock, jazz or even rap. I think
that, unfortunately, despite both articles (the one in Creation mag and
the web) which clearly mentioned that reaching into the culture with the medium
of the culture, it is not the same as being part of it, and being part of it was
never advocated. Such comments and thoughts entirely miss the point that this was
a mode of evangelism. And that because most rap is presently practiced by ungodly
performers, it does not automatically follow that if Christians use a style or genre,
that it is therefore bad. The efforts are to reach a particular group of non-Christians
and mainly teens and young folks who would never enter the halls of the church.
And although many people can ‘think’ and have lots of ideas of why young people
are leaving the church (and there are lots of reasons), studies and surveys
have shown that it is the seeming lack of relevance of the faith and Scripture to
the world in which they live, that is the major reason.
Richard A., France, 19 November 2011
Oh dear! I thought we had done with this old chestnut 30 years ago when Christian
rocker Larry Norman was singing ‘Why should the devil have all the good music?’
Sadly it appears not.
At that time I was a teenager and a brand new Christian desperate to find any Christians
making music that sounded in any way relevant to the culture of the time.
When I did find believers who rocked a little, it helped me a lot.
At that time I happened to really enjoy the sound of very loud overdriven electric
guitars. It was very exciting to me. Does that mean I had succumbed to the temptations
of satan and let myself become a pawn in his evil game? I think not. Certainly no
more than someone who lets himself be swept up by the rhapsodies of Bach for example.
I spent many hours with friends and youth leaders discussing this very issue, (Rock
music being a tool of satan and all that implied) and I remain as convinced now
as I was then about my convictions on the matter.
Music – and indeed all art, is born out of the world view of the person making it.
The ‘message’ that it brings with it reflects the way that person understands the
world as they know it. This world view may be more or less aligned with our biblical
perspective on things but the form of the music is not the issue. Form is form –
neither good nor bad (in the moral sense). The issue is how the artist understands
the reality they are living in.
We can’t judge them on that. That is for God to do.
We don’t have to listen to the music if we don’t approve but that said, neither
is it our job to decide for others what they should be listening to.
I think when it is all boiled down; this discussion is actually about taste and
familiarity. We are comfortable with familiar things. We like what we know. We all
know and love that old chorus right? We tend not to like what we don’t understand.
We often don’t understand new things so in the case of music our preferred taste
runs to that which we grew up with. (I mean can that racket our teenager is listening
to in his bedroom really even qualify as music?) Parents have been saying that same
thing for decades now. I still remember the amazing shock I experienced upon hearing
the Beetle’s song ‘revolution’ for the first time. It was 1970 or so and I thought
the record player was malfunctioning. The electric guitar intro was so raw and loud.
It was extreme. Unlike anything I had ever heard before. It was also perfectly appropriate
for a song about revolution. Now I love it, but of course the Beetles would be considered
rather tame by today’s standards.
Many people (and reasonably so) resist change because it is unsettling and Christians
in particular seem to be easily shocked by new things. New sounds, new fashions,
new technology … Why is it that the latest form of music is always seen as more
devilish than the last new form of music with which we have now become comfortable?
Creative people: Musicians, artists and I would venture: scientists – actively seek
out new things. It is in their nature to do so. It is a hallmark of being creative
and it brings progress to us all on many levels. Christian artists search for fresh
ways of expressing timeless truths. The bible exhorts us to ‘Sing a new song’. Perhaps
our heavenly father has heard enough of that old chorus as well!
I know many musicians and in fact I am an artist myself so naturally this is a subject
close to my heart. Being an artist attempting to work with integrity while living
in the world as a part of the body of Christ can be quite a lonely balancing act
at times. A little bit of understanding and encouragement goes a long way. May I
suggest that it is time we as Christians relax a little and learn to welcome change.
Let’s encourage those among us who bring it instead of questioning their motives
and doing God’s business for him.
I couldn’t help but weigh in on this conversation. Thank you for hearing me.
Keep up the good work CMI.
Scott L., South Africa, 19 November 2011
I often find it intriguing how some will look down upon others because of their
“wordly” music, yet will utilize music to manipulate a “gathering together of the
brethren” in a service. I recall a Worship Leaders course some years ago where we
were taught as musicians and worship leaders to sing some fast upbeat songs, then
a few slow ones, then a fast one that slowed down in a medley into a slower song
(perhaps with some silence and some praying, followed by a slow song with people
seated with the offering being taken-it was said this caused people to give more
because they were emotionally excited toward intimacy with God, and seated they
could more easily reach their bags/wallets etc!
Many who supported this method were very anti-“worldly” type music/tunes being used
in the church context! It was only when people taught me that I shouldn’t leave
may brain in the parking lot when heading into a service with the Church, that I
realised how manipulative this method was, and even more evil than Metal etc, since
this was veiled in ‘holiness’ and done by “righteous shepherds’!
I presently sing in our congregation’s Young Adults band (I’m the 41yr old bald
kid with a Bible College Degree that sings lead) and sometimes have to get used
to some of the new songs and eventually enjoy them; and the guys listen to me if
I challenge the theology in a new song (which is very seldom, interestingly enough)!
What we need to exercise in the Church as a body is acceptance with grace of a Christian
brothers and sisters with their warts and all-obviously sinful behaviour is unacceptable-but
lets make sure it is God’s definition of SIN and not our own exclusivist ideology!
R. F., United States, 19 November 2011
As a composer who has studied music in depth for several years, I would like to
point out the established fact that music is linguistic in nature. Not only is this
true in a subjective sense, but in an objective sense. In other words, music communicates
a specific meaning apart from the presence of words (see “The Unanswered Question”
by Leonard Bernstein). Music has specific grammar, syntax, morphology, and phonology.
It is a true language. The problem with styles such as rap and rock is that they
communicate unholy concepts. This cannot be fully explained here. Do your own research
and see for yourself.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for the email Roderick (but not for slight ‘jab’ at the end).
I suppose it came because you stated such things are an established fact. So I find
it interesting that I have received other emails that would disagree with your ‘stated
facts’, and have produced their own facts that say the opposite. So, I suppose like
evolution, facts can be interpreted in a framework. I suspect the framework is the
present culture that rap represent.
Rap is a style or genre that places a heavy emphasis on lyrics. Some music is dark
and heavy, but some is light and almost like repetitious jingle (DC Talk’s music
was light and airy). Your statement: “The problem with styles such as rap and rock
is that they communicate unholy concepts”, respectfully, does throw the baby out
with the bathwater somewhat. It kinda read as follows: some rap (or rock) is ungodly,
therefore all rap (and rock) is ungodly.
I think the simple issue is that most rap performers and songs promote ungodly concepts.
So the few criticisms we’ve received on this tend to be subjective based on tastes
and preferences. This is exactly why the rap culture needs to be penetrated for
Christ.
Daiv F., United States, 19 November 2011
This is an excellent article-thank you. I admit that previously to my exposure to
DL, I did not believe that there could be such a thing as “Christian Rap”. I was
wrong. While I personally would not listen to rap, if my kids listened to DL, I
would not object. I was most impressed that their lyrics are easily understood and
scathingly biblical. I can certainly see God using these guys in a powerful way.
At the same time, this article is written from a positive standpoint and addresses
those who would be skeptical or outright deny non-traditional forms of music as
valid worship. This is understandable, but I DO think it would be equally valuable
to address music or musicians that claim to be “Christian”, but are in fact indistinguishable
from the world. In a video blog by Molotov Mitchell on the WND site, I was exposed
to such a band called “Demon Hunter”. It would be helpful, I think to see an analysis
from scripture on such forms of “music” where the lyrics are hard (or impossible)
to understand, weak in content, and the style of both the music and appearance is
actually wicked (as in not wholesome) in look and feel.
Gary Bates responds:
Thanks for the email and your encouragement. However, I would like to point out
that we weren’t actually advocating rap as a style of worship though. I heartily
agree with your point that some practitioners of a wide variety of music genres,
are hardly distinguishable as Christians. There is no doubt that some adopt styles
of the world to satisfy their own desires and put a Christian veneer on it to somehow
make it acceptable. That is why I suggested that the lyrics play the greatest part
in determining what is acceptable and what isn’t. And it’s also why I wrote that
it is a wisdom issues that requires a balanced approach.
George M., New Zealand, 20 November 2011
What can I say?
Long ago the Wesley brothers were ostracised for setting good words to popular pub
culture music, yet today they are sung in churches all over the English speaking
world. (Almost) quoting St Paul: I don’t care how the Gospel is proclaimed, just
so long as it is.
As for these fellows: Good on yer. You are reaching a hard to reach group of people.
Heidi C., Australia, 21 November 2011
Thank you Gary for your article and thank you DL for reaching out to a part of the
world/section of society that is chained and bound in slavery to sin. There are
so very many people who are lost in ALL “cultures of music”. Anyone
who is willing to engage these people and capture the culture for Christ ought to
be encouraged.
With regard to music produced by Christians written to specifically share the gospel
or relate biblical truth:
- Lyrics written to convey truth must be biblical. :) This ensures that the piece
of music is objective. This is the first part of good evangelism.
- Lyrics written to convey personal response to (or even lack of) biblical truth must
be honest and be able to be related to by those who hear them. This is the second
part of good evangelism.
- Lyrics written on a subject (eg creation vs evolution) need to be reasoned, logical,
well thought out and well researched. This is good apologetics.
- The music needs to convey the emotion of both the lyrics and the composer of the
music with the specific task of pressing particular emotional buttons in the listener
in order to show them Christ and their need for Him. Emotions are variable and exist
over a very wide spectrum. All people relate and react differently to different
types of emotions and will thus both relate and react differently to different types
of music. People who listen to rap music have vastly different buttons to those
who frequent concert halls. Evangelical Christian musicians are seeking people to
reach to point them to Christ. If you want to reach them, you have to find them,
and in order to find them, you have to look in the appropriate place. We need MORE
people to engage with the “rap culture”. We need MORE people to engage
with the “heavy metal culture”. We need MORE people to engage with “pop
culture”. And we actually need MORE people to engage with the “classical
music culture”!!! We need to reach the world for CHRIST. Sin taints EVERYTHING.
Satan twists EVERYTHING. Christ has victory over EVERYTHING. :)
To all those who use their God given talents in music to reach people with the Gospel
of Christ and the Truth of God-thank you so very, very much.
POSTING COMMENTS FOR THIS ARTICLE CLOSED ON 21 NOVEMBER, 2011.
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