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Feedback archiveFeedback 2012

Science, history, and the Bible

Published: 28 July 2012 (GMT+10)

123rf.com/Illia Uriadnikov

In today’s feedback, CMI’s Shaun Doyle and Dr Carl Wieland address questions about how science and natural history work, and where evolution and the Bible fit into how we investigate science and history. David N. from Sweden writes in response to Evolution Answers Book? His comments are in red and comments from CMI’s Shaun Doyle are interspersed.

Dear David,

Thank you for your email.

Religion seems to be obsessed with the ‘satisfaction’ an answer brings. That is to say science is often unsatisfying in its answers, when it’s not plain offensive or repulsive.

I can’t speak for other religions, but truth is an integral part of the ‘satisfaction’ that Christian answers bring. Science can only approximate truth, and it is a human enterprise, which means it’s liable to the same distortions and errors that humans typically make in other areas. If this makes science ‘unsatisfying’ for anyone, then so be it.

Scripture on the other hand is deeply satisfying in that it is available to anyone to explore and interpret off the shelf, it is contained in one infinitely small book compared to the volumes upon volumes of scientific data out there, some of which unpleasantly hidden within peer reviewed journals, or relatively obscured articles. One piece of a scientific puzzle may be hidden in a textbook somewhere, another in a library in Geneva, in an old tome dating from the fifties.

Science can only approximate truth, and it is a human enterprise, which means it’s liable to the same distortions and errors that humans typically make in other areas.

Scripture is satisfying not because we have ready access to it, but because it is God’s inerrant revelation of Himself to us. It speaks infallibly to the whole of human experience, and it speaks accurately about the God who deserves worship. It encourages, rebukes, and motivates us to be what God created us to be, and it tells us of God’s gracious provision for restoring us to what we were always meant to be. Science can never satisfy in this way regardless of whether scientific answers are easy or hard to find. See our Bible Q and A and our Bible ‘contradictions’ and ‘errors’ pages.

So the author is right, science is an inherently unsatisfying, exasperating and altogether a ditch-digging effort in acquiring knowledge.

It is like this because of the inherent epistemological limits of science, not because it may require a research librarian in Uzbekistan to get the information.

Science may one day ask-what did the ancestry of this particular lizard look like? And an year into the research we may only have the answer that they were a certain shade of blue-ish green. But if you can accuse science of being unsatisfying, you can never accuse it of holding too little evidence to its credits.

What is ‘science’? Philosophers of ‘science’ can’t seem to agree on a definition, so we should be rather careful before we personify it (Please see ‘It’s not science). Besides, the question you pose ‘science’ as asking is more accurately classed as a question of natural history. The millions-of-years ancestry of a particular lizard is not repeatable or observable, and neither is it testable—and all of these are typically considered defining characteristics of ‘science’. It’s important to note that this does not address the question of whether or not evolution is true; it merely places evolution in its proper category of study. What this does is it helps us more readily discern the investigative tools we need to address the question of whether or not evolution is true. (For more information, please see Cuvier’s analogy and its consequences: forensics vs testimony as historical evidence).

Now, it’s not merely ‘mainstream’ scientists who ask such questions—creationists can and do ask similar questions (See e.g. the creationist field of baraminology). However, we’re not guided by an axiom that says that all life is genealogically related (or that all life must be explained as the product of natural cause and effect), so we end up going in different research directions from evolutionary researchers. Evolution is not a conclusion from the data; it is a framework by which the data is interpreted, just like creation is.

Evolutionists can have all the data in the world at their hands, and they will still misread them because the glasses through which they read the data distort everything they see.

You have a problem with fossils? Look at paleontology and geology. You have one with genetics? Allow yourself the 5–10 years required to explore the field sufficiently, doubt every single word, and you will find sufficient empirical data to support it.

We don’t “have a problem” with any of these fields. We disagree with those who claim that research from these fields proves that evolution is true and the Bible is not. Why? Because the issue is not about amassing “sufficient empirical data”. The issue is about the flawed axioms evolutionists use to ground their case, and that the Bible provides the only reliable framework in which to investigate natural history. Evolutionists can have all the data in the world at their hands, and they will still misread them because the glasses through which they read the data distort everything they see.

Saying outright that people could never have knowledge of what happened more than 6000 years ago, is like saying outright that people could never build a computer, or a rocket that goes to the moon. It is impossible to prove the inability of humans to achieve something. To this effect I wish your religion good luck.

It’s not the same thing because building computers and rockets is a matter of technological ingenuity, not natural history reconstruction like evolution and long-age geology. It’s not lack of technology that stymies us in reconstructing natural history; it’s the fact that the evidence (fossils, rock layers, genetics) is inherently incapable of providing testimony independent of the historian’s ideology that restricts what we can do. We can’t ‘read’ the rocks or base pairs in the same way as we can read Genesis, the Gospels, Josephus, or Tacitus.

Regards

Shaun Doyle


123rf.com/Pedro Antonio Salaverría Calahorra

Thomas L. from the United States writes in response to the article Make believe knowledge:

This article tries to make the case that all knowledge is basically accepted on authority alone. This is false. The epistemic method of science is fundamentally different from that of religion. Authority is disregarded in favor of evidence and explanatory power. Interestingly enough, the epistemic method defended in this article would also work for the Koran or any other holy book.

CMI’s Dr Carl Wieland responds:

Dear Mr L./Dear Thomas

Thanks for your comment on this piece, it is appreciated. I don’t think that it was intended to be a work of deep philosophy, but I am interested to know whether you really believe your own idealized version about how science is supposed to function, but almost never does in the real world. In terms of a formalized system, Hungarian science philosopher the late Imre Lakatos has probably most nearly approached what happens in reality. I recommend his works to you.

You might like to try using the search engine on our site to find more detailed discussions of how scientific methodology for historical sciences is subtly but profoundly different from that of operational/empirical science. Or visit the carefully grouped Q and A page.

Finally, re your comment about the epistemological approach working equally well for any ‘holy book’, there is a lot that could be said, but Holy books? and Using the Bible to prove the Bible? are a good start.

Kind regards,

Carl W.

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Readers’ comments
Judie S., Australia, 28 July 2012

Considering things like living fossils,logs crossing strata & the lack of transitional forms, I think it's evolutionists who really have a problem with fossils.

Narindra R., Madagascar, 28 July 2012

"You have a problem with fossils? Look at paleontology and geology. You have one with genetics? Allow yourself the 5–10 years required to explore the field sufficiently, doubt every single word, and you will find sufficient empirical data to support it."

Why do atheists always have to resort to such base tactics as bringing into question the qualification of the person who presents them with creation evidence?

Daniel R., Canada, 29 July 2012

Good article. The Word of God is God. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God to them that have Spiritual ears to hear, that leads to Salvation. God sent His Word. The Word Became flesh. In the Beginning was the Word. Why the Word, why the Word in flesh, which is still the Word, why is it Faith by hearing and hearing by the Word, always the Word, the Word, the Word. Is that the only way? In fact, yes, it is. It is the sole means of God communicating with man. The Word. We think God could show everyone there is a God and He is God, just appear in His Glory, but the thing is no man can see God and live, our mortal bodies is not strong enough to behold His Glory. So the only way to prove is by His Word, that leads to Faith, that leads to Salvation, that leads to "not in Word only but also in Power", He speaks to us, and also with other tongues. That is the methodology, the Way. God put His Word above His Name which is above every name! Amen! There is none of that is a science book. They are not in the same category. His Word is Living and is Him as far as our interaction with God to man on this earth is concerning. To dismiss the Word of God is to dismiss God, to call it a Lie is to call God a liar. And the Word of God is far more than scripture, It is Christ living in us! Powerful!

Miki T., Tanzania, United Republic of, 29 July 2012

On the basis of your responses, it is clear that Bible thumpers as some call 'fundamentalists' regret that there is science at all, delve in it to be able to answer questions, but focus on the detail and ignore the method of science. How ingenious is it to say that layers of rock whose periodicity can be carbon dated etc can't offer 'testimony'? Is it a Paulinian epistle or a Papal nihil obstat that would prove science of fossils to be true?

Shaun Doyle responds

Aside from the self-serving defintion of science which was addressed in the article, you have identified the heart of the issue: what is our foundational assumption: revelation (the Bible) or 'periodicity' (long ages)? We can justify our use of revelation—God is the perfectly reliable witness to all of history. Justifying the assumption of ‘periodicity’ is the task of the long ager. But it isn't very easy. Appealing to science doesn’t work because of the limits of science. Since God controls the world, not the other way around, God’s word has greater evidential warrant than science. And the biblical God provides a ground for uniformity in nature because he is unchanging and orderly—but that uniformity doesn’t contradict the biblical witness because God is self-consistent.

A. C., United States, 8 September 2012

In trying to understand what science really is (philosophically), which includes its faults and limits (which I was not really taught in high school), which works of Imre Lakatos is recommended?

Carl Wieland responds

Much of Lakatos' work is in monographs or essays that may not be readily accessible, but (despite the usual accuracy limitations of Wikipedia) this article about him gives a reasonable introduction to the subject as well as detailing his main works. Also, this biography indicates that his major work Proofs and Refutations : The Logic of Mathematical Discovery was only published post-humously, as he intended to keep on improving it. A good way of understanding his ideas at a reasonable level might be a web search and perusal of many discussions of them, including critical ones. A list of reference works about him is found here.

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